Bought my first Kellogg Ashtray, a project phone for $28

[TelePlay]

Okay, after reading the replies, I thought about it for a bit and tried a few things (can't wait for summer). Was surprised the transmitter ring came off quite easily but the threads and spit cut fit was filled with rust and dirt (two of the spade lugs were rusted off the handset wires, this phone has a tough life).

1) First, cut some white double sided tape down the middle and wrapped it about the cap only. Grabbed it with my strap wrench and twisted the tape right off the Bakelite (tape was too thick)

2) Then, cut some automotive trim double sided tape down the middle and tried the same thing, same result although the thinner, stronger automotive trim tape lasted longer before twisting off.

3) Put about 12 rounds of electrical tape over the joint, cut the tape in half on the phone using an exacto knife in the cap/handset gap and removed the tape from the handset leaving a thicker cap easier to grip with the wrench. Same effect as 1 & 2, twisted off after a few tries to break it free.

Three good ideas that didn't work on this handset.

4) Finally, since I found my Dexron ATF last month, I mixed up 4 milliliters of 50/50 ATF and acetone. It didn't want to mix so added a few drops of denatured alcohol and was able to get a suspension of the ATF in acetone. Put a tight wrap of electrical tape around 95% of the cap, leaving a quarter inch gap. Using an eye dropper, filled the sealed gap between the hand set and cap with about  2 ml of the home brew penetrating oil (I checked the effect of Dexron on Bakelite before doing this). Then covered the quarter inch gap with tape to seal the fluid in. It's going to sit for a day or two before going back to it with the strap wrench. Should be interesting to see how that intense application works.

Could always but a newer, good to go one for about $40 but what's the fun in that, right?   

[TelePlay]

Still working on getting the stuck receiver cap off of the handset. The last method of trapping the home brew penetrating oil in the cap for several days did not work. So, put electrical tape over the cap holes, covered it with lanolin and put the receiver end into my ultrasonic cleaner for two half hour periods at about 125 degrees. All the penetrating oil and some dirt came out but it's still stuck in place. Stuck it into my freezer but after letting it thaw, still stuck in place. Tried putting 5 layers of thin strips of gaffers tape on the cap to raise the edge allowing the strap wrench to better grip the cap. Gaffers tape is tough with a strong adhesive. It allowed me to put more torque on the cap but even the gaffers tape started to separate without breaking the cap free.

It's becoming one of those challenges that I now feel that I have to win. Started on another method, more to follow.

Any suggestions that would help break the threads free are always appreciated.

[TelePlay]

Was digging through a large box of very old, dirty and damages handsets I bought a few years ago and found a "newer" KS&S handset. Has a smaller spit cup and does not have the extended entry port for the handset cord. But it does have a hole in the receiver end. As with mine, the transmitter retainer ring came right off. This newer handset had a stuck receiver cap but my strap wrench worked on it after two tries to take it off.

Assuming I have an older handset, with the higher or larger spit cup, my handset has a 6 hold receiver cap similar to the one shown below. This other handset, the "newer" one, has a 3 hole receiver cap (no picture shown). Did Kellogg move to a 3 hole cap on newer handsets? Which receiver cap goes with the larger spit cup? From Catalog pictures, I assumed the larger spit cup is older. Anyone know without spending too much time on it?

Having both spit cups, I noticed the environmental effect on Bakelite. In the lower image, the newer, shorter spit cut was shiny all over but the older, longer spit cup shows shiny Bakelite only under the retainer ring. The last photo on the right shows a distinct line between the "original" surface and what years of use did to the spit cut.

[19and41]

Peppermint oil and a bit of transmission fluid.  It is the last ditch option for firearms work such as rebarreling rifle receivers or removing seized screws.  Kroil is even considered less of a penetrant.

[poplar1]

Assuming I have an older handset, with the higher or larger spit cup, my handset has a 6 hold receiver cap similar to the one shown below. This other handset, the "newer" one, has a 3 hole receiver cap (no picture shown). Did Kellogg move to a 3 hole cap on newer handsets? Which receiver cap goes with the larger spit cup? From Catalog pictures, I assumed the larger spit cup is older. Anyone know without spending too much time on it?

The 3-hole cap is for newer handsets, such as for the K1000. Here is one of Doug's photos:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13732.msg143660#msg143660

[unbeldi]

I agree that the larger spit cup was used on the earlier Masterphones, until ca. the end of the 1930s, but I have seen 900 series sets also with the shallow cup. I think the 1941 catalog already shows it that way.   The post-war sets, the 1000 series always used the shallow style, but that was also a No. 46 handset, not the 27-C, IIRC.  I think it is only the No. 46 handset that has fewer holes in the receiver cap.

I believe all my 900-series sets have a deep spit cup, and the receiver cap has six holes.  See attached picture:


[PS: Looking at the catalog page I posted in this thread, the picture shows the shallow type.]

[unbeldi]

Well, the six-hole question appears more complex still.

I have at least one Kellogg 1000, actual a 1040-SB with magneto box, that has a No. 46-C handset, but the receiver cap has six holes.

I also have a 1070 with built-in magneto that has a No. 47-C handset with four holes in the receiver cap (pictured).
I think the difference from a 46-C to a 47-C is a change to a Koiled Kord.

[AE_Collector]

The condenser seems to say "K.S. & 8 CO"

Kellogg Switchboard & Supply Company.

Terry

[TelePlay]

Peppermint oil and a bit of transmission fluid.  It is the last ditch option for firearms work such as rebarreling rifle receivers or removing seized screws.  Kroil is even considered less of a penetrant.

Well, got the cap off and the peppermint oil/ATF mixture (25% ATF to 75% oil) worked. When I got the cap off and receiver out, the threads were full of peppermint oil as was the surface of the receiver and the handset cup. So, it penetrated well, wetting everything.

Bad news was the cap did not unscrew. While using my strap wrench, for the 30th time, to get the cap off, I broke the already cracked handset in two. Well, didn't fall apart but it broke beyond repair. So, Mr. Dremel with a cutting wheel took off the handset cup and then some fine cutting of the cup still on the threaded cap and a tap on a chisel cracked the ring free to release the cap. The threads were quite gritty, sort of like rock or sand deposits or mineral deposits, source unknown, fully wet from the penetrating oil. Problem here was not being able to get a good grip on the thin, rounded cap.

The receiver element cleaned up nicely (a electromagnetic / diaphragm element type). I found an early Kellogg handset in my junk handset box missing the receiver element but had a 6 hole (plus a center hole) receiver cap. So, piecing the parts together, I have a complete early 925 handset that needs no work other than polishing, and a new cord. Glad I didn't destroy a good handset.

On to the next thing.

[unbeldi]

Well, what an excursion to get there.

[Pourme]

Wow John....

I have been following this like my Mother used to follow soap operas!

While you were wrestling with this handset I ordered a strap wrench on EBAY.

All that torque and pressure had to result in movement somewhere!

[TelePlay]

All that torque and pressure had to result in movement somewhere!

Yes, and with the cracks already in the handset, I was trying not to break it but after everything I tried to get a good strap wrench grip on that thin, rounded cap edge, and it kept slipping off, and having not much to hold on to when wrenching the cap, the handle broke. My strap wrench has worked wonder full on every use to date, except for this one. But, it did work on the junker handset receiver caps I had so it must have been a really stuck cap on this handset. I wanted the cap and element, which I was able to extract.

As an FYI, in case anyone keeps track of scr4w sizes, the dial blank brass inserts, two of them, used to hole the dial blank in the housing are 4-32 coarse thread. 4-40 normal and 4-52 fine did not work. Fastenal likes me, I'm a regular customer.

[TelePlay]

Watching eBay for a dial, finally got lucky and snagged one this morning. Seller listed it as an AE MonoPhone dial but it sure looks like the dial pictured in the 1947 Kellogg catalog. All I need now is a number card holder.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311756032983

Waiting for the seller to get back to me on the shipping issue in the listing. Seller's title said FREE Shipping and Handling but I got dinged $10 for shipping. $13 for a dial with free shipping would be a deal. Both the title and description say free shipping so will wait to see what the seller says.

[LarryInMichigan]

I cannot tell from the blurry pictures if that is a standard dial or a Select-O-Phone dial.  The latter will not work on a standard phone line.

Larry

[unbeldi]

The standard dial should be labeled 10-D, while the SOP dial is stamped 11-A. Unfortunately that is not visible in those pics.
It is actually hard to tell the difference between them when just presented with a rear view, because the contacts are stacked in that direction.
But going by the extra bend in the top spring, which shows a distinct reflection in the eBay image, I would say, that John got the right kind.

Below is a 10-D and a 11-A.