Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Janet found this today at a yard sale for $50. One lock is missing. I will try to get it open and get pics of the inside.....what a girl!!

nice find... great price!

thanks Rick...got it open and all the wires are disconnected. Anyone have a schematic for what wire goes where?....thanks....Doug

It is a 236G: Note the enclosed buzzer (ringer) and the lack of transfer contacts (from the upper housing to the backplate). Unfortunately, someone removed the network from the upper housing and installed it where the coin relay should be. No worries, though: You can still wire it like a 236G, except that you may need at least 4 wires to the dial from the backplate if the cord with 9-pin plug is missing.

Thanks David!

I am looking though the Forum's wiring diagrams and see nothing for Payphones.

Any help is greatly appreciated...Doug

Quote from: Doug Rose on August 13, 2022, 03:05:17 PMThanks David!

I am looking though the Forum's wiring diagrams and see nothing for Payphones.

Any help is greatly appreciated...Doug

Here's a 236G diagram TCI library (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/coin-collectors/2147-coin-collectors-236-tl/file)

Quote from: RDPipes on August 13, 2022, 04:46:51 PMHere's a 236G diagram TCI library (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/coin-collectors/2147-coin-collectors-236-tl/file)

many thanks Ron....Doug

Very nice find Doug. I don't remember you talking about pay phones before🤔

I have a few Gary, Janet done good...real good!

I will try to get it working today...Doug

Does anyone have a pic of the connections on a 4010 Network. I am getting lost on the schematic.

I need to connect the handset.

Yellow has a black wire and SL has a red wire not terminated. Nothing to Red or BBX see pic

White coming from dial connector is not terminated.

Dial connector has red off and red on the connector is stripped. See pic

I connected the ringer to L1 and L2 and it works.

Any help is greatly appreciated...Doug

W from dial goes to GN on network. It is not shown going thru the plug/connector in the diagram because the 4010 network was located in the upper housing, along with the dial.

White and Black of handset connect to TR at top of backplate; then jumper from TR to R on network. But you could also just connect these 2 handset wires directly to R on network

Red handset wire connects to T on terminal block at top, then jumper from T to B on network. Again, you can just connect the red transmitter wire to B instead.

So the only switched handset wire is the other receiver wire. It is in series with the BB and W dial contacts and the BBX and GN hookswitch contacts. You can temporarily connect that receiver wire to GN on network and worry about the pops later.

Personally, I would recommend moving the network to the upper housing, where it belongs. Otherwise, you will be spending time trying to follow some flipper's reasoning.

Sweet, I started my Telecom career installing and repairing pay stations. I would have ripped my back pocket and dropped my wallet trying to get the money out.

David

Yellow has a black wire and SL has a red wire not terminated.

I have connected as directed and still no DT, I have tested the handset and it is working

Any other ideas my friend...>Doug

Quote from: Doug Rose on August 14, 2022, 09:34:30 AMDoes anyone have a pic of the connections on a 4010 Network. I am getting lost on the schematic.

Here's a link to my "go-to" BSP for 425, 4010, and 4228 networks:

https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=501+135+100 (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=501+135+100)

Quote from: paul-f on August 14, 2022, 03:58:30 PMHere's a link to my "go-to" BSP for 425, 4010, and 4228 networks:

https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=501+135+100 (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=501+135+100)

thanks Paul...I have no luck with TCI library.  Last night I put WE 236G in the search and got nothing. I followed your link and searched 4010 and got nothing useful. It must be me. All I am looking for is a pic of a wired 4010....I do appreciate your help....Doug

Quote from: Fwbeachbum on August 14, 2022, 01:48:30 PMSweet, I started my Telecom career installing and repairing pay stations. I would have ripped my back pocket and dropped my wallet trying to get the money out.

Welcome to the Forum....it is a great place. I'd love to hear some Tech stories!...Doug

FIg. 9 of the BSP Paul cited shows a line drawing of the 4010B network. Screenshot 2022-08-14 19.5the8.05.png

I found the BSP by using the google search for "4010 Network",  rather than the basic search at the TCI Library site.

There are no wires shown, but I don't know how much that would help since your phone does not conform to the 236G wiring diagram, because the network is in the wrong place. That means you would have to reengineer it in order to repurpose the 8-conductor cord as a dial cord..

If I were forced to leave the network in the lower housing, I would probably start with dial tone on RR and C, receiver on GN, transmitter on B, and one transmitter wire and one receiver on R. (All terminals on the 4010B). This should give you dial tone and transmitter would work, but you wouoldn't be able to dial yet or hang up.

If dial tone and transmitter are OK: Then I would add the hookswitch  (Y and SL terminals) to open one side of the line. Then put the dial pulsing contacts  (Y and BK) in series with one side of the line Then add the BB-W dial contacts in series with the GN and BBX hookswitch then to GN on network, and the receiver wire that was temporarily on GN to W on dial.

If the bracket is missing to hold the network on the slanted shelf in the upper housing, you could probably use some 'supervisor's tape" (sticky on both sides). I stopped trying to follow someone else's kludged wiring a while back (except to wonder how it ever worked that way). I asked one reseller why he would remove the working parts from a 236G only to install an ITT network. He said, "That way, they will all be wired the same when [sic] they come back."

Try.https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/design-line/2353-503-200-113-i1-sep75-d-180574-coin-decorator-set-1/file (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/design-line/2353-503-200-113-i1-sep75-d-180574-coin-decorator-set-1/file)

Thanks Stan, David and Paul...I do appreciate all the help....Doug

If anyone owns a WE 236G with a 4010 Network could you please post a pic with Terminal and the 4010 wired to work. I am having a tough time with mine....many thanks....Doug

Doug- you don't have a 236G. You have the decorator phone in the BSP I sent you. A diagram of a complete 236 would be useless. Half the parts of a 236 were stripped out of your phone by whatever phone company (or The Telephone Pioneers) when they made it a decorator phone. They made sure it could never be used as a REAL profit making payphone again.

thanks Stan...I am out of my league trying to read the schematic.

I am just trying to make it work and find out what wires where on the 4010 and the terminal.....Doug

Stan ...the Terminal in the schematic is calling for BL and BK, but mine is marked R BBX Y SL G.

Also where do I terminate the dial wires from the connector?...thanks...Doug

Why do so many want to alter payphones?  What is wrong with leaving them as they were made?

Mike

Quote from: MMikeJBenN27 on August 15, 2022, 03:43:16 PMWhy do so many want to alter payphones?  What is wrong with leaving them as they were made?

Mike

mike...just trying to get it to work, I did not alter it....Doug

I know it wasn't you, I see so much of this nowadays.  Same with cars.  They nowadays insist on Resto-modding them, so now it is hard to find a stock example.  They love to drop a small-block Chevy engine in everything that is not a Chevy, they want to put Rack and Pinion steering in everything, and I hate Rack and Pinion, they want to put disk brakes on cars that never had them, etc.

Mike

I did one of those a few months back. I cannot fiond any picture od the network but I do have the drawing I used for it. I think I got it from someone here. It is attached.

Doug
BL and BK aren't terminal locations, they are wire colors. BL=Blue BK=Black. Follow those lines to the left side of the diagram and you will come upon the terminal markings. They are all there exactly like your pileup. Well maybe two are missing from your pileup but they were just tie points when the pileup was the type that had transfer contacts and not a plug and wiring harness like yours. They aren't needed anyway. Those diagrams take a little getting use to.

thanks Stan

Quote from: HarrySmith on August 15, 2022, 09:37:57 PMI did one of those a few months back. I cannot fiond any picture od the network but I do have the drawing I used for it. I think I got it from someone here. It is attached.

Harry...I will give it a shot....many thanks for taking the time....Doug

You are lucky Doug to live in an area where vintage phones are abundant.

Perhaps the reason the phone was for sale is because the previous owners couldn't get it working with the current wiring.

It might be worth considering looking up this model here on CRPF and starting over from a better foundation.

Harry's helpful drawing above might be a good starting point.

:)

Good News!!!

With Harry's drawing and Stan's schematic I got the phone to work! Fairly painlessly  ::)

The G1 had low volume so I replaced it with an F1 which I think looks sharp.

I do not have all the connections that Harry had on his terminal, so a few guesses on my part and the phone rings and conversation is clear!!

Now, I have three connections for the dial that come through the connector, that Harry has on a second branch on his terminal that I do not have.

Stan's schematic has it connecting basically to the handset

Payphone Rings and conversation is perfect. I cannot get it to dial, I will try again later.

Big thanks to Harry and Stan.

I had a few Fallout Shelter Stickers and I put it over the hole, it is easily removed...Doug

Got an Automatic Electric 3-slot off Ebay and will pass on that the tin that Twinings loose tea comes in will make a dandy coin receptacle to replace the vault you may not have gotten. I glued a small block of wood to one end to make it easier to remove.

I made a mounting (backing) board for mine by tracing the outline of the phone back and four of the mounting holes onto a piece of scrap 3/4" MDF. Spray painted the edges black. Mount it to a stud, those phones will rip your anchors right out of the drywall! I used 1/4-20 T-nuts in the backing board and 1/4-20 Philips head bolts to mount the phone to the board. Looks very professional and a lot cheaper than the $100 or so they want for the real (or repro) thing!

Does anyone have a lock to replace the one that was drilled out. Working with key would be great, but a non working just to cover the hole is fine as well...thanks....Doug

Quote from: Doug Rose on September 07, 2022, 09:28:36 AMDoes anyone have a lock to replace the one that was drilled out. Working with key would be great, but a non working just to cover the hole is fine as well...thanks....Doug

I have these if you can't find a keyed lock.
I worked for a company that used these as dummy locks to throw off would be crooks
on some of their vending machines. There plastic and just pop in the hole.
PM me if interested.

Those are very cool  :D
I have used rubber plugs in the past for those holes in payphones.

thanks Ron....you are the best!!

Quote from: Doug Rose on September 07, 2022, 02:09:14 PMthanks Ron....you are the best!!

Ah, Not the best but, pretty dadburn close.......LOL!

1  DIALING OUT:
Do you have a jumper from L2 to C? If so, you can remove it and instead connect L12 on network to Y on dial, and BK on dial to C. This will substitute the normally closed dial pulsing contact springs for the jumper.

2  MUTING THE RECEIVER WHEN.     
    DIALING"
If it dials out now, you just need to use 2 additional wires to BB and W on dial, and put those 2 contacts in series with the receiver, in order to open the receiver while dialing 

     OR

Since there are only 3 screw terminals on the terminal strip at the bottom of the upper housing, you could use them for the Y, BK, and R dial terminals. Connect R on dial to L1 on the 4010B network. This will short L1 and L2 when the dial is in use.

None of the above follows either the BSPs for the Design Line pay phone, or Harry's diagram  The Design Line set has the network in the upper housing (which I had already suggested). Harry's diagram is apparently for a modified 233G (since it shows the transfer contacts from the Upper Housing).

Quote from: poplar1 on September 07, 2022, 11:47:24 PM1  DIALING OUT:
..connect L12 on network to Y on dial, and BK on dial to C

CORRECTION: 

Connect L2 on network

thanks David, I appreciate all the help you give me...Doug

Quote from: RDPipes on September 07, 2022, 09:58:06 AMI have these if you can't find a keyed lock.
I worked for a company that used these as dummy locks to throw off would be crooks
on some of their vending machines. There plastic and just pop in the hole.
PM me if interested.

WOW!!! I got them this morning. So easy, even I can do it.  ;D  It just pops in and snaps! Done. That's it!

Thanks Ron, absolutely amazing....Doug

Quote from: Doug Rose on September 10, 2022, 09:48:40 AMWOW!!! I got them this morning. So easy, even I can do it.  ;D  It just pops in and snaps! Done. That's it!

Thanks Ron, absolutely amazing....Doug

Didn't I tell you they just pop in, your very welcome sir.