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Automatic Electric Dial Identification

Started by AE_Collector, November 27, 2011, 03:36:44 PM

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Quote from: stub1953 on November 29, 2011, 01:54:17 AM
This is in the TCI Library-                                                                                                       stub

Types 24, 24A36, 51, 51A, 52, 52F, 53A, 53AF, 53B, 53BF, 54F, 54AF, 54BF and 154A



Here's a picture of the ring that holds the number card in place on the #23 dial.  GG, can you post a picture of your dial?  Sounds like someone may have switched the #23 fingerwheel for an earlier one.  Or maybe you have a GPO version of the mercedes?


Here's a picture of the two types of mercedes dial  - the one on the right doesn't have that ratchet pawl, instead it uses a flat piece of metal.  It combines the ratchet pawl and the metal flat piece that holds it in place into one flat piece.


Quote from: G-Man on November 29, 2011, 04:48:35 AM
Types 24, 24A36, 51, 51A, 52, 52F, 53A, 53AF, 53B, 53BF, 54F, 54AF, 54BF and 154A

This PDF has a ton of useful info to help differentiate various AE dials from the type 24 on up. I have added a summary of the info covering AE Type 24 Dials and up in my second post at the top of this thread.

Thanks for pointing this one out to us G-Man.



Dave, on the one I have (and the other one like it with a black fingerwheel), the disc shown in your photo is what's in the dial center, but with a round-head screw and without a retainer ring.  However it fits the same retainer ring as AE manual dial blanks.

From the next set of photos, the ratchet pawl spring is same as the one under the left "Mercedes" ring, but w/o that intermediate cardboard insert. 

Dial numberplate is held to dial chassis by three bent prongs in the rear though one of the prongs is missing.  In the fingerwheel photo, mine is the type shown at the left.  In the pictures of rear of dial photo, mine is also the type shown at the left. 

Though, the dial rear shown at the right looks VERY familiar, I recall holding one of those in my hands years ago, and thinking that the off-normal contacts had broken off because they should have been on the right (d'oh!).  Maybe that's my other example of this type, or maybe something else, I'll have to look around.

I'm still lagging on getting photography operational here.  Tonight I'm doin' the ol' worky-work, programming a switch or two while logged in here.  (Reading & writing here while waiting for PBX database screens to load over dialup).  Got another switch to program for cutover next week.  Anyway, long back-stack before I have time to get my photo setup going.  (Better to have too much work than not enough these days.)


Here is the dial chart in 997-300-500 (page 8) from the TCI Library turned around for easier reading.
This chart & one for the # 51 / 52 dial can be found in the TCI Library here < >
Doug Pav


I have a couple more dials to throw into the thread here. I haven't heard anyone mention the difinitive difference in finger-stops, or did I simply miss that part? Additionally, there should be some note of the distinct metamorphosis in number rings from the early, glass-covered paper number rings to the early THICK porcelain, to what we had in the end. By the way, the glass on the early examples (with paper number ring) is SUPER-THIN (3/64"), and about impossible to cut in a conventional manner. Probably would have to be etched with acid.

Lastly, I have attached photos of an early "Kellogg" dial that although similar to an AE dial, sure does look different from the back! And, I also included one photo (I have many of it) of the strangest dial that I have ever seen; an "American Automatic Telephone Company" dial (of sorts). I literally found this dial apparatus on the FLOOR of an old antique shop when the owner KICKED it out of the way like you would an old beer can!
Photos attached.
Ray Kotke
Recumbent Casting, LLC


Nice looking dials Ray. I'll trade you a 1A2 Key System for that last pushbutton dial. ;D I wonder how many of THEM were ever made. As for Kellogg dials I have noticed that some 10D dials have a worm shaft that is manufactured differently. Instead of cutting the worm into the shaft they wound a stiff "wire" around it and spot welded the ends (see pic). Has anyone ever seen this style of worm shaft on an AE dial?
Doug Pav


Ray, check your messages, I'm interested in a couple of your GPO dials.

Re. the first AE dial there: looks like an Australian version, with that lettering. Yo everyone, notice the impulse cam: on first glance it appears as if one of the wings broke off but it's also possible that it just revolved twice as fast so the single wing was all that was needed.

It would be interesting to know what instructions they put where on that card retainer that's divided into quarters.

I have one of those early Kellogg dials minus fingerstop and fingerwheel, aside from which it runs like almost-new. The impulse cam on that bears an interesting resemblance to what WE chose for the #6 and #7 dial.  Question is whether I should pester a friend at a machine shop to make me a fingerwheel & fingerstop for it, or offer it up as part of a trade for something else?

Does your odd pushbutton dial make regular dial pulses?  Apparently it doesn't have a way of storing digits ("pause before pressing next button"), which may be why it didn't get off the ground: too many impatient people getting wrong numbers.  Does digit 5 have extra contacts or what's up with using it as a "ring" button?

Wallphone, re. your 10-D: 

That arrangement of the worm looks familiar but I can't say for sure I've seen one like that on a Kellogg 10- dial.  Though, I'm darn sure I've never seen that on an AE dial, it would have immediately struck me as an exception. 

Re. Kellogg 10-G and possibly 10-D: when you dial 0 on those, the dial hits an internal stop that's a tiny bit ahead of the fingerstop or exactly even with it, so there's a risk of wearing down the D-shaped mounting hole for the fingerwheel and then the fingerwheel not matching up perfectly with the digits.  The fix for which is either a) dial 0 gently, b) see if the fingerstop can be altered or repositioned slightly without doing damage, or c) disassemble entirely and grind the internal stop slightly to give it more room. 


Quote from: wds on November 28, 2011, 05:25:52 PM
#11 on the left, #18 on the right.  Both of these fingerwheels are 2 3/4".  I purchased a half dozen of these dials before I figured out the differences.

Back to Dials here again.

The apparent difference between the #11 (left) and #18 (right) is that the #11 appears to only have pulsing contacts while the #18 has additional contacts to short or disconnect the receiver. Is that how it appears to you as well?

However, it looks as though the #11 was designed to have room for more contact pile-ups so maybe that can't be used to tell them apart. Maybe they could be ordered with or without the shorting contact set back then.



The first picture is the #11 from the side, the second picture is the #18.  Notice the #11 has extra contacts.  Maybe this is a later #11?  (or maybe it's any ultra rare #11 1/2?)  Otherwise, I think you're right about the differences between the #11 & #18.


So that is the same #11 dial as the one you posted here earlier? Are the extra contacts a part of the pulsing contact pile-up?



Here's one on ebaY at the moment. Any thoughts as to which model it is?



It looks like a standard #18 without the dial card ring.   


Have an American Electric stick whth the Keystone dial . This is from Philidelphia