I'm trying to figure out this latest problem.... I'm running an old 1A1 system, using all CAT 5e cabling and home runs to all stations. the problem today is when I pickup on line 1, line 2 goes into a false hold. when I pickup line 2 and reset it, then Line 1 goes off-hook and then resets after timing out. what should I look for? I isolated it to extension in my shed, but when I unplugged the phone the problem persisted. so, that's not where the problem lies. could it be a shorted bridging clip? or a reversed A-lead? I'm not sure where to start. any suggestions? so far, lines 1 and 2 ore the only lines effected. these are analog land lines and BOTH lines are tied into a Actiontec C3000A bonded DSL Modem. (through 2 whole house DSL Filters) currently, my wiring from the NID is as follows: Pair 1: line 1 Pair 2: Line 2 Pair 3: Data line 1 Pair 4: Data line 2. I'm thinking feedback, but am not sure if that's the case. Lines 1 and 2 terminate into a 212KTU.
Is the wire running underground, as is?
Because you would be surprised what moisture will do to direct burials, if the wire is not designed to be DB.
It will cause all sorts of things, all not so good things.
I'll have to check my splices... I have a few of them under the house... when I rewired, I didn't get everything wired as planned... am using 44A blocks... and some are uncovered... oh man, here we go again...
In situations like that, it's best to use one run, no splices.
And if it's going to be subject to moisture, get cable rated for that. I had a run from the house to the barn when I was a kid, it was zip cord my dad ran in conduit years before. Somewhere along the line moisture got in and ruined it.
It was a thousand foot run so finding one length that long was tough. So I went searching at the dump found several long runs of overhead drop wire, p clamps on it etc. Made a splice and I was done. It was fine, also added carbon protectors on each end grounded via #10 wire. Had no problems with it. Just getting it high enough to go over the driveway was hard. Had to climb two trees very high.
So having the correct cable is really important to start with.
No or one splice done correctly you should not have any trouble.
Quote from: Babybearjs on January 07, 2019, 11:20:32 AM
I'll have to check my splices... I have a few of them under the house... when I rewired, I didn't get everything wired as planned... am using 44A blocks... and some are uncovered... oh man, here we go again...
John....last time you brought this up you said you were going to get the 66 blocks out from under your house where moisture, dirt, dust and animals roam freely
I have been a phoneman all my life, if you do not clean up your wire field you will always have issues. Always!
You need home run cables from your switch to your locations. NO splices. No exceptions. Consistency with your wiring, the same color codes to location. I can't imagine using a punch tool on my back under a house.
Until your clean up your wiring, you will always have an issue.
This has been discussed before. You are your worst enemy with your wiring. Sorry to be blunt, but this has been talked about many times and here you are in 2019 with the same problems....Doug
Agreed, get a box of wire, start from one end go directly to the other then terminate. Use clean dry equipment, don't recycle blocks from under your house.
Or you will continue to have trouble. Hey I've been there, back when I first started out. Learned quickly not to splice unless absolutely necessary, and then use appropriate splice equipment.
I didn't want to be blunt, like Doug. But he's right when it comes to telephone wire it has to be done right first time.
Ken
Thanks Guys! this just reinforces the need to finish what I started... right now, 25 pair CAT 5e is going for about 850.00/1000 Ft. spool, know any sources that are less expensive? I'm looking at getting a minimum of 700 ft. might as well get the whole spool for the price I'm having to pay...
You don't need Cat. 5E and you don't need plenum-rated. Cat. 3 PVC is fine. Used is fine -- they must still be removing it from buildings when renovating and/or installing new systems.
In my installation I have the Ethernet port installed along side the telephone ports. It just works out better that way. Plus, right now, all my wiring IS Cat5e and I want to keep it that way. I'll look for some local sources. thanks for the help.
For your phone system use 25 pair cat 3 then along side of that run 4 pair cat 5 for your data. Unless you like spending more money then is necessary. Even with splices, your cat 5 is useless because you're data is slowing down just because of those. I don't use 5 anywhere else except data in my house. My key system uses cat 3 all day long with no problems.
this is an option. I just wanted to use 1 cable that covered everything at once. that was the original idea. Cat3 may be the only option but, the problem is finding it at a good price. I'm still researching....
Under stood. But there will be those times when you have to separate things. I made my own KSU when I was fifteen, because I got a 2565 set and didn't have a clue how to make it work. But after hours of playing around with it, and realizing all the possibilities that I could do.
Make a long story short, I learned that having a splice that is subject to moisture, or even movements caused lots of problems. So in order to get away from spending time trouble shooting, get one lenght of wire and connect point a then point b. Then all this problems went away. Because I had no loose wires, no moisture problems etc.
Do you really need a data port outside? That's another thing to consider.
We all learn in our own way, mine was very similar to yours, waste time by trying to splice cables, and using connection points in a damp area. Just doesn't work.
Even the phone guy who rewired my parents new home made that same mistake, by using a 42A in a crawl space under the house. Later became an issue of noise, static not all the time, but got more frequent. I found the problem, found 3Ms gel filled connectors got a couple re did the splice, no more noise.
well, today I redid a splice connection. 4 44A blocks. I had to remount all the blocks on a new backboard and reterminate the connections. this is 1 of 4 splices that I have on my system. when I was originally designing the layout, I was purchasing scraps of 25 pair cable thinking it would work out ok, it turns out to be more of a headache than what I had envisioned. thinking going from 25 pair to 4 pair would be OK as long as the category stayed constant. (CAT 5e) which it has. the system is working ok except for the 1 little glitch which I'm trying to understand. I have reversed lines 1 and 2 at the individual phones for certain locations. that way I can pickup line 2 faster in the house. now, my question... could this cause a false hold in the system if my A-lead wires are reversed without knowing. I'm still investigating... the problem is isolated to only lines 1 and 2. all other circuits are running just fine. I'll post pictures of my work here soon, my camera is on charge... but, the splices under the house don't seem to be causing a huge concern other than just having to clean up my work. all my terminations are spaded using brass spades. corrosion is not a problem at this point.
Quote from: Babybearjs on January 08, 2019, 07:55:10 PM
well, today I redid a splice connection. 4 44A blocks. I had to remount all the blocks on a new backboard and reterminate the connections. this is 1 of 4 splices that I have on my system. when I was originally designing the layout, I was purchasing scraps of 25 Quote from: poplar1 on January 08, 2019, 01:06:47 AM
You don't need Cat. 5E and you don't need plenum-rated. Cat. 3 PVC is fine. Used is fine --
Your punch blocks should be rated the same Cat as your wire. Cat 5e on a Cat 3 block makes your installation Cat 3.
Your wire needs to rated for the application. If it is outside it needs to be rated for direct burial. If it is in conduit you still need rated cable . Moisture will accumulate in the conduit due to condensation.
If you want an outside splice box, get a rated enclosure and install it at a comfortable working height in a convenient location.
Install a plywood back board inside the box.
Inside the enclosure would be a good place to install your outside data jack.
Since you like to modify your system , I would buy a bigger enclosure than needed.
Follow the advice of Doug and Ken.
JMO,
Jim S.
John, last time.. I promise.
A splice is a splice is a splice, trying to run data with a splice I just a waste of time. As Jim said, cat 5 on a cat 3 block, beit a punch, or 42-44-?? It's all cat 3. I can't imagine using a data port with splices, especially when using those old Block's. Your speed must be slower than walking to the house to plug into your modem!
YOUR going to be chasing trouble everyday with four(?)splices. And under your house? Yikes.
Honestly I wouldn't even waste my time doing four much less one under my house.
Sorry, but three this post alone have said no to splices.
Do you want some free cable? Let me know what length you want, if I have it it's yours, just please Use it in one run under your house!
Ken
Ken, I fully understand. but at the time that I built the system, money was and even still is the problem. Had I known about splices back then, I would have grabbed the wire faster then. its frustrating, to have a system that's cobbled together and only half of it is wired right. (well, almost) I wish I had been able to grab some 100 foot sections but at the time, they only were offering 50-60 foot cuts (end of the spool) so I worked with what I had. last year when I got the idea to rerun the lines using 4 4 pair cables in home runs, it sounded great...until I started to do it. in order to replace 3 of the runs I had furniture in the way that prohibited me from accomplishing my goal... and the 4th run is the shed... over 100 feet away from my KTS and I didn't have enough wire. so.. here I am planning this thing out for the umpteenth time in hopes of getting it right. so... aside from the splices, what would make my system act up like this? I pickup line 1 and line 2 goes into a false hold. I hang up line 1 and line 2 resets and hangs up also. my next step is to unplug the 2 phones that I have with the reversed lines and see if that's where the problem lies... of so, then problem solved. if not, then I have to check my wiring... I have a feeling its the sets... I'll let you know.
Quote from: Babybearjs on January 09, 2019, 12:12:59 AM
. so... aside from the splices, what would make my system act up like this?
Dirt and moisture and rodents and bugs and things like like. Inadequate support of the cables can cause problems as well.
The best advice is to use proper materials and methods when you redo your install.
Jim
Yes, I agree. BUT....I did isolate the problem... I have discovered that the issue is originating from Station #9, My Shed... I pulled the bridging clip off of the 66 block that fees stations 8 and 9, front porch and shed, and the problem left.... so... I have to go and check my wiring out in my shed... I have a 66 block out there and will inspect it in the morning... I'm wondering if there is a broken wire... or something like that... anyway... the problem is identified and is being addressed. oh, and here are some pictures for you guys...
You can lead a horse to water....but you can't make home float on his back
;D Unless he's dead... :D anyway, here are some more photos for you all... all the troubleshooting came out clear. no issues were found. I'm wondering if there is a pinched wire somewhere... I'm still checking. crazy...
:-[ totally embarrassing! on my other thread about line quality, I tested, and tested to find where my problem was... everything was checking out fine, yet the problem persisted. so, I pulled the orange pair off my 66 block and checked the lines for any continuity. negative... everything checked fine. then I decided to pull the actual jack and see if that's where the problem laid. took the jack and took a hard look at it and was noticing some slight corrosion... so I decided to switch it out... problem solved! OMG! I checked everything! thinking it was the wiring when all along it was a bad jack. SO, for all you techs in the field... how do you rate using the "Keystone" Jacks on a system? what kind of quality have you encountered and what brands do you swear by? The location of this Jack is outdoors and the phone stays plugged in all the time. The jacks are in a weather tight box and are in a covered area. So, you would think the installation would last for years... well, this one was.... until this last month... why, I cant say, just had to switch it out... now my problems solved! crazy isin't it?
>Modified<
My favorite jack for outdoor applications is a weatherproof weatherproof-in-use jack.
:-\ Really? Imagine that...
Just looking at the work, it's amazing it even works.
I redid a system teminatination point one time. A job I thought an hour or so it'll be good, it took me two and a half hours to finish it. It was that bad, a twenty station digital job.
I wish I took a picture of it, because I've seen rats nests before (reffuring to the mess of wires) and that job was THE worse I've ever seen. But yours looks kinda close. Point is any and I stress ANY loose OR corroded wire will reek havoc on the lines.
Do you try to keep these connections up off the ground at all? I see your punch field is up off the ground and that's good, but in your pictures it looks like some are just laying around on the ground... That's bad. Keep these up at least a foot two is way better.
Ken
Suggestions are welcome but for the past 10 years have been ignored. If the moisture and dirt does not get you, the animals will. See you again in three months. Kid no idea what I am talking about but this sure is fun phone
Well John in all fairness, your work is way better than that infamous job I did. At least the punch field was four feet off the ground. Now here's an easy fix, all you have to do is twist a couple wires, leaving about an inch and a quarter un twisted, wipe any dirt off make sure the ends are cut clean.
Slip a scotchlok on the end fully inserting the wire, then crimp with pliers. YOUR done. Easy fix for all your splice problems. Seal and connect at the same time!
YOU can find a box of 100 on eBay, or anywhere for under $20. Half the price of a 2830 telephone set with shipping.
Simply twist a couple wires wipe the insulation and cut and slide those baby's on and crimp! No more stripping wires and wrapping them around a screw terminal and tightening the screw... Imagine that! Wipe, cut crimp and done. Bingo.
Sealed splices, no moisture, no loose or corroded connections. YOUR issues are now at least cut in half.
Sound like a good idea??
Here you go, a cheap fix
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-PCS-GENUINE-3M-UR2-Butt-Type-Scotchlok-Connector-26-19-AWG/332270186588
?epid=2254336735&hash=item4d5cd8b05c:g:XUEAAOSw1BlZRvh2:sc:USPSFirstClass!03254!US!-1