Just got another European phone manufactured by LM Ericsson. I think it is from late 60's to early 70's. The phone looks fine but the plastic case has been badly discolored. Not yet tested it if it still works.
What is the purpose of the double numbers on the number wheel ?
D/P
I don't know, hehehe, what do you think?
???
I guess it's because of the familiarity maybe, but the foreign phones just don't quite do it for me.
This is another nice phone, again something we just don't see a lot of here in my park of the woods. I like the low swooped style. Does it work?
Not yet tested it McHeath, I have not done anything on it, even cleaning it, hehehe
Quote from: Dan/Panther on March 11, 2009, 01:49:37 PM
What is the purpose of the double numbers on the number wheel ?
D/P
The tiny numbers on the inside of the dial are a very old European trait. Normally, with the old dials, you'll find letters inside the holes. Later ones seem to have had either letters or nothing at all. It does seem odd that they doubled up on the numbers on the outside, "500 style" with this one, though.
Here's my KTAS D-08 with the tiny inside numbers on it's Ericsson dial:
QuoteI guess it's because of the familiarity maybe, but the foreign phones just don't quite do it for me.
Yeah it can be tough to get used to the very different kind of style of non-American produced phones. I did not even really know anything about the rest of the worlds telephones until I started up this "hobby" (craze) and have since been finding more and more to like about them. I only have one however, an Ericofon that I got for Christmas this past year, and it's pretty fun with it's goofy Googie style. Just don't ask Hobiesport what it looks like. ;)
Yes, I'm sure it's because we all had a 500 or something of the like in the house at one point or another, and anything else just seems like an outsider. I know I look at some of the foreign ones and I just think "I couldn't deal with that" but the 500's just feel right. They're like an old broken in pair of shoes, no surprises, and just comfortable.
That's an Ericsson "Dialog" phone, type 6-DLG. Back in the early 80s we used to install those on Ericsson PBXs.
The reason for the odd dial number locations: Ericsson traditionally placed the numbers on the inside of the dial holes, as you see, going back to the 20s or so at least. Probably to prevent enameled numbers from being rubbed off porcelain plates below the fingerwheel. That habit persisted to the last of Ericsson's dial phones, a rotary version of the Diavox 100. The digits outside of the holes (per US practice) were used for a few of Ericsson's markets but not all; for example I have a blue Mexican 6-DLG without them (identical in all other respects, and with a PBX ground button mounted on the dial next to the fingerstop; that was original).
Important notes about these:
The housing is mounted with a screw inside the hand grip behind the phone. When you look from the rear you see a clear plastic piece inside the handgrip. That has a flathead screw inside that is captive with a little wire spring. Loosen that screw and then gently lift the housing off toward the front (there are two plastic projections at the front that hook over the baseplate). When putting the housing back, do not over-tighten that screw or you'll strip the threads it screws into.
The circuit board inside the phone (and on the Diavox series as well) is thin and somewhat weak. Be VERY careful loosening or tightening the screws on the terminals, as you can easily cause the circuit board to crack or break. If you find a screw is too tight to loosen easily, grip the terminal under it with needle-nose pliers to hold it still while attempting to unscrew it, to prevent ripping the terminal out of the network board.
The ringer gongs have the exact same pitches as those used on WE C4A ringers. The ringer mechanism can be adjusted carefully to provide a very pleasant quiet ring, but you need to look at it carefully to figure out how: it's the little wire finger that contacts the ringer volume control, which can be bent just a tiny bit further out; and then of course rotate the gongs to proper distance from the clapper.
The proprietary round nut holding the dial fingerwheel: you will need to make up a clever little tool for getting this off without scratching it. Take a large paperclip and cut off a section, and then bend it around so you have something that looks like a letter U. File down the clipped ends so they are flat rather than pointy from being cut off. Now grip this with a solid pair of pliers and hold it tight while inserting it gently into the holes in the nut, and then turn counter-clockwise. It will get the nut to budge and then you can use your fingers to unscrew it from there. When you put it back on, all you need to do is get it finger-tight rather than torquing it on with your home-made dial tool.
BEWARE taking Ericsson dials apart. When you remove the fingerwheel, the dome-shaped round piece under it conceals the main spring, and if you pry that dome-shaped thing off (easy to do by accident), the mainspring will let go. It's dangerous to unprotected eyes, and it's a bear to rewind and get back together. So if you take the fingerwheel off for cleaning the dial, screw the nut back onto the dial to hold the mainspring dome captive.
The transmitters and receivers are interchangeable with WE/SC/ITT parts if need be. The transmitters are known to go scratchy, so if you have a spare Bell T1 transmitter around, use that. You may need to bend the center contact spring in the handset up just a little to make contact.
These phones are most often found in that gray color. Also found in black, medium green, ivory, bright orange, medium blue, and mid beige, and white (it would not surprise me if they also made 'em in yellow). I once saw an article where Ericsson talked about color choice, that showed a rainbow spectrum of colors they had tested before settling on the range they actually produced.
At the front of the example you have, there are two vertical slots. The telephone number label and card retainer went in there, held in place by another wire spring behind it. These are often missing and difficult to replace, but one of these days someone with an Ericsson stash will probably turn up and put them on Ebay.
GG:
Welcome to the forum. You are digging up old threads that I have never seen before.
Where are you located? I'm in Vancouver Canada and we used some Ericsson PABX's and PAX's in British Columbia as well. Mainly 741 and 561 PABX's and some 636 PAX's as intercoms.
We used pretty much all AE phones though since BC Telephone was owned 50.1% by GTE.
There are some pictures of a 636 PAX in this thread. The PAX is now out in my garage (collecting dust) for now.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15797.0
Terry
Our neighbours in East (Sweden) made the Dialogue telephone from 1962 to 1978.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Dialog_1966_grau.jpg/250px-Dialog_1966_grau.jpg) (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dialog_in_1972.jpg?uselang=sv) (pics from wikipedia)
Look at the special Swedish dial.
In 1967 The Norwegian "Elektrisk Bureau" partly owned by W.E. and L.M.E. started to make The Norwgian "fully electronic" ;D modell for the Norwegian monopoly Televerket (Telegrafverket). They used the same plastic shape, and became backups for each other because of the cost of the molding tools. (http://primusweb.no/images/big_image/SUM/SUM.08005/13081) (Pic digital museum)
This telephone had a different dial. Mechanically more like W.E. with a 10 digit cam in center. Dynamic microphone and receiver (Equal element) with moving coil, and plastic diaphragm. The microphone worked as transmitter for the ringing sound. The Dial was made with or without printed numbers under the holes of the dial. Always numbers in the center. Last one made in 1982.
dsk
d_s_k, That is interesting that the transmitter element was also used for the ringer. Was this phone designed by the KGB? It seems that if the transmitter element was always connected for ringing purposes, that it wouldn't be too hard to eavesdrop in on a room. Do you have a circuit diagram for this model phone?
Don't worry for the KGB :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/th_67.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/?action=view¤t=67.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/th_Clipboard01b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/?action=view¤t=Clipboard01b.jpg)
dsk
Thanks d_s_k, Good reply.
Quote from: Brinybay on February 13, 2011, 04:51:47 AM
Is that GG as in Gary Goff?
He's "playing with us" if it is! He said in another thread that he can't remember where to get new rubber base rings for AE sets. (Gary Goff).
GG also mentions working on PABX's and the phones connected to them so it isn't Gary Goff.
Terry
I can tell you it is not Gary, but GG seems to be very knowlegeable. I think he is going to be a great addition to the forum.
Quote from: d_s_k on February 13, 2011, 09:15:56 AM
Don't worry for the KGB :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/th_67.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/?action=view¤t=67.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/th_Clipboard01b.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/EB%201967/?action=view¤t=Clipboard01b.jpg)
dsk
As more I learn about US telephones the more I actually may say about this design.
The dialog is obviously inspired by the 5300 and 500 designs. The traditional Norwegian lines at the countryside was long, and still often blank wires on insulators. Even some forest lines run on blank wires hung on insulators hung in trees by other wires. A system with great flexibility in wind, but not suitable for central battery systems. This existence of a few expensive and demanding lines were still a priority when the Norwegian version was designed in 1967. These telephones was working on short lines mainly, and you got high gain sidetone, about like using a 5300 on a short high current line. It was by political reasons important to make telephones inside the country, and it was economical to have only one model. (If you want it an the wall, you had to put a rack on the wall to place your telphone)
Sitting here 44 years later, it is easy to say: importing e.g. Western Electric 500 sets for 80% of the use, and use those Norwegian sets for the 20% most difficult lines would have saved money, and made it possible to increase the service level.
When you are used to use the Norwegian telephone on a short line, you are starting to shout into a 500 (2500) set, because cant believe the other end can hear you.
Will you have the same feeling after using a 300 series telephone on a short line, and then switch to a 500/2500??
dsk
Nope, not Gary Goff, and please don't speculate in the public forums, that's a security issue (along with posting your birth dates! holy cow, doing that is asking for identity theft!). Anyone who wants to get in touch with me is welcome to email me. I'm in California now, SF Bay Area.
Terry, is there any chance that Ericsson 636 could be for sale or trade? Or any other small Ericsson XB PAXs? I have no examples of XB material here despite working with it for a while back East. I do however have three Ericsson ASB-100 electronic PABXs with operator consoles.
Ericsson made another Dialog variant that omitted the extended dial ring and had a newer type dial with a mechanism similar to the Italian FACE Standard dial of its era (early to mid 80s?). This Ericsson with the different dial looked vaguely similar to a German Post 611 set.
DSK, very interesting bits of history there about Norway. I never saw that particular version of the Ericsson Dialog before (the one that rings via the handset mic). Yes that would be a surveillance risk, unlawful room bugging. On the other hand, so are cellphones (I do not have one: if I want 1920-ish audio, I have a real AE candlestick for that:-) If they went to an electronic transmission network it's surprising they didn't also go to an MF or LD keypad at the same time. Interesting combination.
I have a set of all three colors of the Elektrisk Bureau combination desk/wall set (black, ivory, gray), and the 1931 Ericsson 332 type set but with normally-numbered dial, and the preceding unit that looks like a ringer box sitting on the desk with a dial and handset cradle above it. Question is, what type of central office switches were in use in Norway? I would guess XB due to Ericsson influence.
Re. making phones in-country for political reasons: If you stop making things in your own country, you end up with the economy getting stripped out as happened to the UK and US. And look where that got us. China became the manufacturing capital of the world while Americans were selling each other fraudulent mortgages. So yeah I'd say those political reasons are pretty important, in addition to the fact that self-sufficiency in necessities is an important intrinsic value. (And don't even get me started about the need for nuclear & renewables to replace fossil fuels!)
It looks like the Swedish dialog schematics are here, 2 versions.
http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41337
Regarding the Norwegian ringer issue, I am sure it is easier to use a mechanical ringer as a dynamic microphone than the circuit in the Norwegian one.
The first exchanges in Norway was a W.E. 7A. Later about 50% was delivered from Standard Telefon og Kabelfabrikk (later ITT) and the rest from Ericsson. (again politics)
A few Siemens exchanges was used before the nationalization of the telephone companies.
It has been a lot of roomers about why Oslo has the reverse dial, and that is your politics. Some export regulations around 1918 forced W.E. to export a reverse dial system.
Actually the very first had the last pulse slightly longer than the others. Correction 24/04-2012: The first pulse of a 0 was 2.5 times longer. This was in use for many years, and I have a telephone from the 30ies with that dial, always breaking the connection when you dial ;D (I have modified it (fully restorable) and uses the telephone in my garage. (It is splash proof at a 193x standard :D )
Regards
dsk
DSK, thanks for the info. I didn't know about the early WE switches there, much less the odd export regulation (I wonder if that's how New Zealand ended up reverse-numbered?). Yes, the longer dial pulse issue: I have an ancient phone with a dial that has a longer break as the last pulse; would be nice to replace the pulse cam or something to make it usable here. (That plus the reverse numbering.)
Quote from: GG on February 18, 2011, 01:44:36 PMTerry, is there any chance that Ericsson 636 could be for sale or trade? Or any other small Ericsson XB PAXs? I have no examples of XB material here despite working with it for a while back East. I do however have three Ericsson ASB-100 electronic PABXs with operator consoles.
Well one never knows but I too was quite excited to get this as it must be one of the smallest available examples of a working Xbar system. I had been looking for one of these for some time now as I had installed a couple of them back in the late 70's. Didn't think that I was going to find one and then a guy I work with started asking me questions about this gray box he found attached to the wall in a phone room. I thought I'd better check it out and he needed help getting it out of his way. A win - win situation!
I haven't stopped looking for stuff though. I had a Northern Telecom SG1 with my name on it a couple of years back and for all I know my name may still be on it. Only problem is it disappeared from where it was "in storage" so it was likely scrapped. Meanwhile I've found another one so once again, it has my name on it.
I also have my three cabinet Hitachi GTX400 crossbar PABX (mentioned in some other thread) hiding in a phone room but I can't really imagine ever bringing it home. I'd sure love to power it up and make some calls through it though.
Terry