354 Wall Phone - Confusing Modifications

[winkydink]

I am starting a restoration of a WE 354 wall phone for a friend and when I opened up the case I got a bit of a surprise.

If you look at the induction coil you will see an "add on" for extra/re-wiring.

Additionally, there is also a extra piece connected to the dial that has more connections and a resistor. 

Can anyone tell me if this is a Western Electric type of modification and what the modification might be doing ?

Additionally, would it be safe to remove all this extra stuff and convert it back to a standard type of wiring ?

This phone has matching dates and was manufactured December 1955.  Does anyone know the last production date for new phone for the 354 line ?

Thanks as always for any information you can provide.

[Phonesrfun]

I would just remove the extra stuff and wire it as a normal 354.

[dencins]

There is something about the switch that appears different.  I thought the 354 had three sets of contacts but I only see two.

Dennis Hallworth

[dencins]

Here is a picture of my 354 opened up.  The wiring is completely different and notice the switch.

[LarryInMichigan]

You need to be careful when opening that 354 so that you won't be blinded by the reflections off of the gongs.

[Phonesrfun]

Winky seems to have a wall phone equivalent of a 302 instead of a 354.  I am noticing that it has the 101A coil and the 2 section hookswitch.  Interesting.

The wiring of this would be the same as a 302 and not as a 354.

[winkydink]

Winky seems to have a wall phone equivalent of a 302 instead of a 354.  I am noticing that it has the 101A coil and the 2 section hookswitch.  Interesting.

The wiring of this would be the same as a 302 and not as a 354.

An observation and a question:

observation:

This phone has matching dates for the components.  The base, the ringer and the 101-A induction coil all have dates of 12/55 or  IV 55.  I did not notice until now the fact that there are only 2 sets of contacts, not 3.  Very interesting.


Question:
How to restore and bring it back to life.  It seems to me that in the limited experience that I have restoring phones, I have never seen sodered compomnets.  Therefore I am going to assume the "modifications" were done by someone else and not Bell/Western Electric.

How should I proceed.  Should I remove the "extra" stuff and rewire as if it were a 302 ?  ....or ... Should I reattach the way it is right now ?

Question 2:

CAn anyone guess if this is a modification that Western Electric might have done to reuse some components toward the end of the production run of the 354/352 ?  Has anyone ever seen a 2 contact switch in a 354 before ?  When did the production run end for the 354 ?

[Phonesrfun]

Personally, I have no experience with that particular mod or variance.  It seems, though, that nothing has been cut or soldered that would keep it from being wired the same as a 302.  It would not surprise me if they did make a 302 version of the wall phone that was not the 354 version.  The main difference between a 302 and the 3X4 is that the 354 and the 304 had the 101B coil with the extra "M" center tap on the primary and the double wound ringer coil.  That combination allowed for automatic number identification (ANI) on party lines.  Other than that, the two are functionally the same and it makes absolutely no difference on a private line any way.

I would wire it as a 302.

[winkydink]

Personally, I have no experience with that particular mod or variance.  It seems, though, that nothing has been cut or soldered that would keep it from being wired the same as a 302.  It would not surprise me if they did make a 302 version of the wall phone that was not the 354 version.  The main difference between a 302 and the 3X4 is that the 354 and the 304 had the 101B coil with the extra "M" center tap on the primary and the double wound ringer coil.  That combination allowed for automatic number identification (ANI) on party lines.  Other than that, the two are functionally the same and it makes absolutely no difference on a private line any way.

I would wire it as a 302.

Thanks Bill !

I will take lots of pictures during disassembly and cleaning, but will rewire as a 302.

[winkydink]

I disassemble the phone last night and some more confusion resulted.

First:  The condenser only has 2 wires not 4.  I don't think I have seen this before.

Second:  the bracket on both the base plate and ringer don't seem to be "standard" for any of the 302 or 354 phones I have worked on.  It is a 2 wire ringer, It looks like they are WE bells, the date matches all the other dates on the phone.  But the bracket is not a standard "snap in" like I am used to.

Could this be an "independent" phone, built by Western Electric ?

Can I just substitute a 4 wire condenser and just wire this up as a 302 ?

I am not sure about the ringer.  It looks like a WE ringer and not a "frequency" ringer but who knows.

Bottom line, has anyone ever seen something like this before ?

[winkydink]

Well according to this web site

http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm

This phone is a WE 356.  It has a 101A induction coil and a B3A ringer

Wall, party line, 426A or 333A tube (ringer isolator for long rural lines), B3A ringer, 101A coil. (Wall 306)
Used at common battery antisidetone stations -- 4-party selective and 8-party semiselective service.

The description says that there was a tube (426A or 333A).  My phone did not have that, but did have a bunch of other modifications, perhaps to replace the tube, when it failed.

Now my only problem is a proper wiring diagram and can I use a 2 wire condensor or should I replace it with a 4 wire condensor ?

Additionally, is there any thing special about a B3A ringer ?  Can I  wire it up like a 302 and the ringer will still work ?

[Phonesrfun]

You will need to either get a second capacitor for the ringer, or get one that has both sections from a 302 or a 354. The single section (2-wire) only handles the talk circuit.  The 356 used the tube instead of the capacitor (condenser).

A .5 mF cap @ 250 Volts is what you need.

[winkydink]

You will need to either get a second capacitor for the ringer, or get one that has both sections from a 302 or a 354. The single section (2-wire) only handles the talk circuit.  The 356 used the tube instead of the capacitor (condenser).

A .5 mF cap @ 250 Volts is what you need.

Bill,

Thanks, that is just the info I needed.  I have a parts phone that I can use the condenser from, so that should not be a problem. 

Was there anything special about the B3A ringer as compared to the B1A ringer (besides the way they attach to the base)  ?

[dsk]

My guess: This has used the same condeser for ringer as for voice circuit.
I'm not at home, but i remember to have seen several circuits with simular components.

I,ll look for it, ar may draw one.

Something like this?

dsk

[dsk]

You could wire after this:
NB! red lines.

dsk