Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Forum News => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: KeithB on August 13, 2010, 07:11:59 PM

Title: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 13, 2010, 07:11:59 PM
Hello everyone.  I'm a 50-something from Charlotte, NC and new here.  I just purchased from eBay what appears to be a WE302 deskset, and it should arrive sometime in another week or two.  After cleanup, it's slated to sit atop a 40s-era antique secretary in the bedroom.  From the auction photos, it appears to have an F1W handset and either a 4H or 5H dial.  As a high school student, I loved tinkering with older dial telephone sets, learning how they were wired. In college, our campus had a 1930s or 1940s era switchboard where my dorm roommate worked nights and weekends.  So, I've always had a bit of an interest where phones were involved. 
I've been thoroughly impressed with Dennis's repair/cleanup/polish blog entries, and really appreciate the insane amount of detailed photographs provided.  It will be a wonderful resource for restoring this fine antique.  I ordered some Novus #2 for polishing everything, and hopefully it won't have any deep gouges or cracks.  The best part of this story is the price: $40 shipped.  ;D
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dan on August 13, 2010, 07:14:43 PM
Welcome. Hopefully it will have a 4H dial, as they are much more valuable. Post pics when you get her all pretty ;)
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: LarryInMichigan on August 13, 2010, 07:39:23 PM
Welcome Keith :)  Is the phone shell metal or plastic?  The metal shells were made from 1937-1941.  How you polish it will depend on the type of shell.  Everyone should have a 302.  I have two, one plastic, one metal, plus three other 302s in disguise (two 5302s and a North Galion imposter), and I also bought a 302 for a friend.

Larry
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Kenny C on August 13, 2010, 07:39:45 PM
the 302's are the best phone (in my opinion) they have a better sound quality than the 500(my opinion) and they are more compact. I bought one in may i have  2 now and they both are my work horses. I hope you get the 4H dial if not a 5H is just as good but not as rare. Both of mine have 6H dials.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: jsowers on August 13, 2010, 09:00:04 PM
Keith, it's great to see someone else on the Forum from NC. I'm in Lexington, a hop, skip and jump up I-85 from you. I have several relatives living in Charlotte and surrounding area. It sounds like you're well on your way to fixing up your 302.

I have several 302s, all black. One is connected in my basement--hard wired to the junction box where my phone service terminates. It's been there for 25 years of faithful service, sitting on an old nightstand my mom started housekeeping with in the early 1950s. I can't remember exactly where I got the phone, but I think it was a yard sale.

My collection is mostly 500s and 554s from the 1950s, but the 302 brings back memories of my Aunt's house in Salisbury. You and I are about the same age, and when I was growing up, they still had their original 302 in the bedroom. It seemed a hundred years old to me and I was impressed that something so old still worked fine. Eventually they went to touch-tone in the late 1970s and the 302 went away.

So welcome to the Forum! It's nice to have someone else who knows what Cheerwine is. I had one just this evening and it was really good. For those who don't know, it's a fizzy black cherry soda. No wine, but it's very dark red.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: HarrySmith on August 13, 2010, 09:10:53 PM
Hi Keith :)
Welcome ;D
I also have two 302's, one metal & one plastic. really great, really simple phones, enjoy!
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 13, 2010, 09:16:25 PM
I'm fairly certain this one is plastic, based on the auction photos.  These are attached below.  If any of you spot anything telling, please do tell.   ;)
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dan on August 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Jonathan,I know what cheerwine is and I always get a few cases to bring home with me when I go to Myrtle Beach. It's a smoother more cherry Dr Pepper- like drink. It is fantastic in a long neck glass bottle , made with real sugar, not high fructose corn syrup.  :D
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 13, 2010, 11:13:07 PM
Keith, that looks like a nice 302.  I agree, it does look plastic.  The metal ones almost always have paint loss around the cradle ears.

An F1 handset marked F1W means it was made for sale to an Independent Telco.  Note that it is not marked Bell System, it just has the Western Electric name.  The phone was more than likely originally purchased by the small telephone company in Pennsylvania, based upon the 717 Area Code on the dial card.  Google Maps shows that  Ephrata is in central Pennsylvania.

The wool footpads look a little worn but overall, it looks like a nice telephone.   Congratulations!

By the way, Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 13, 2010, 11:33:38 PM
Thanks Dennis!!  Looking at far too many pages and links tonight, I'd guess it's the 5H dial.  I'm really looking forward to documenting and restoring this 302.  Your comprehensive blog posts inspired me to take up this hobby/sport/insanity once again.  ;D  I think the only things it may require are a replacement porcelain dial plate and cloth cords.  I'd rather not put a decal or overlay on it, but at the very least I'll clean it up now and replace it later.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 13, 2010, 11:38:53 PM
Keith, I also forgot to thank you for the compliments on my blog and my work---thank you.  There are many on this forum that are very good at refurbishing old phones so you'll have lots of help if you ask for it.  By the way, one member, dencins (Dennis Hallworth) does leather recovering.  If you send him your old pads he'll send you four "new" ones.  He does a great job and it's affordable.  You can cross that bridge when you come to it.  Attached is a photo of some of Dennis' foot pads that I put on a 302 just today.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: savageje on August 14, 2010, 12:24:14 AM
NC Folks:  I love Cheerwine.  I'm an Indiana boy, but travel to North Carolina regularly on business.  In fact, I spent the first half of this week in Raleigh.  It was hot!  Our Charlotte office folks introduced me to Cheerwine, livermush and "real barbeque."  They also explained to me that open-wheel racing isn't "real" racing.  Not a big racing fan either way, but I always love it when I meet someone that is proud of their state and wants to share some of the culture with people they meet.  Unfortunately, I never have time to scout around for phones when I'm there...but I guess that means more for you!  ;-)

Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 14, 2010, 01:34:30 AM
One thing I'd like to discover is what the exchange "names" were for my Charlotte NPA : 704-33x-xxxx.  I've tried to think of all the names I could, but none seem to match up with '33' and Google wasn't much help.

According to http://rcrowe.brinkster.net/tensearch.aspx it was 'EDison'.  Go figure, I don't know how Edison had anything to do with Charlotte, but it certainly fits.

According to http://ourwebhome.com/TENP/Recommended.html other recommended exchange names for '33' were:
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Just4Phones on August 14, 2010, 02:47:34 PM
Lets all laugh at how naive KeithB is ;D  Does the story sound familiar?  I bought "a" phone to go with my old desk.  KeithB  be warned......the bug has bit you ...you are one of us now.  Telephones will soon be overrunning your house and you will be making room for just one more like the rest of us addicts.  Welcome to the forum btw.....theres a great bunch of people here and a lot of great topics/Threads
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: AE_Collector on August 14, 2010, 02:49:48 PM
Quote from: Just4Phones on August 14, 2010, 02:47:34 PM
Lets all laugh at how naive KeithB is ;D  Does the story sound familiar?  I bought "a" phone to go with my old desk.  KeithB  be warned......the bug has bit you ...you are one of us now.  Telephones will soon be overrunning your house and you will be making room for just one more like the rest of us addicts.  Welcome to the forum btw.....theres a great bunch of people here and a lot of great topics/Threads

Keith can probably fit in a few more old phones if he were to toss the desk out on the curbside so someone can haul it away!

Terry
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 14, 2010, 03:51:30 PM
Actually guys, when in high school I had two late 50s-era desksets and one wall phone.  So I've had the bug since my teens, it's just been in remission for some 35 years.  Here's something I'm certain you wish you all heard at least once:  My wife was thrilled today to learn she'll get a Lucy phone to put on the desk.  She's an I Love Lucy maniac.  :)

The set arrived this morning, extremely well-packed.  Everything is stamped 10-46 and 11-46, so it's all original.  The dial is a 5H, meaning there's no clickety-clack for me. :( The coiled handset cord and straight wall cord are both good shape, requiring only some cleanup and wax.  The case is not cracked anywhere but is extremely scratched from the handset, and hopefully those areas will sand and polish out well.

I've got to get plenty of pictures taken before I can complete disassembly and clean up this little darling. 
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: jsowers on August 14, 2010, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: KeithB on August 14, 2010, 01:34:30 AM
One thing I'd like to discover is what the exchange "names" were for my Charlotte NPA : 704-33x-xxxx.

EDison is correct, and the 37x-xxxx exchange was FRanklin. I guess they liked naming them after famous inventors, huh?
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 14, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
Here's a question: If the #5H dial is date stamped 10-46, how is it the 164A dial porcelain has "I ..56" on it"  ???
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Doug Rose on August 14, 2010, 09:36:27 PM
Keith....it was replaced later in its life. Its very hard to find a phone with all the dates that match, though not impossible. Welcome to the forum....Doug
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Craig T on August 15, 2010, 11:19:13 AM
Welcome aboard Keith, looks like a great phone and should clean up nicely too.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: McHeath on August 15, 2010, 02:34:51 PM
Belated welcome!  A nice phone and it will look pretty sweet on the desk.  That replaced dial plate is rather common, the letters wore off.  Probably a tech made a home visit and replaced the plate.

Look forward to seeing it all finished up.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 15, 2010, 03:30:31 PM
Thanks guys.  I didn't think they would replace only the porcelain instead of the entire dial.  I guess with fewer customers and more time at each stop this was more common than I'd expect.

Saturday was spent disassembling everything and I was pleasantly surprised to find the original WE302 wiring diagram folded neatly in four and tucked between the ringer and the induction coil.  ;D  I used citrus degreaser concentrate and hot tap water to clean the entire exterior and both cords and I was surprised it wasn't more dirty or greasy.

Today I started sanding the case and handset.  I decided to take a conservative approach since there were some dings along the edges and many pits where the handset banged against the base. I'm not going for a perfectly clean and new look, just "rather-good-looking for a 64-year-old phone".   I started with 600 grit  (instead of 1000) wet/dry and it did well smoothing out the dings and cleaning the surfaces.  It did very well removing the glue remaining from an ancient label/sticker on the front.  I was careful to use lots of water, a light touch, and work in multiple directions over each surface.

I removed the dial card and found two others beneath it.  Unfortunately one was adhered rather well to the acetate with another adhered onto it.  The dial itself works well and makes a pleasant sound, so I'll leave the internals alone.  I ordered a decal for the porcelain today since some numbers and letters are faded.  The dial was nicked in a few places so I lightly sanded it and shot it with a coat of gloss black enamel.  It's been sitting atop a lamp for a few hours to "bake".  8)

There's a light fixture in the kitchen to be replaced this afternoon, but I'll probably take the 1000 grit to everything after I finish that little "honey-do" job.  While I wait on the Novus polish to arrive this week, I can clean up the spade lugs and the exterior of the dial governor. 
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: LarryInMichigan on August 15, 2010, 03:41:52 PM
I didn't know that any 302s had wiring diagrams in them.  None of mine had one.

Larry
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Wallphone on August 15, 2010, 07:48:41 PM
Keith, When you get around to taking pictures can you get one of the diagram? I have probably owned 40 WE 302's and not one ever had a diagram in it. Thanks.
Dougpav
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 15, 2010, 08:09:35 PM
When I read what Keith wrote about the wiring diagram, I thought it strange too.  Perhaps since it was a phone made for an Independent, they put the wiring diagram inside.  I would also like to see a photo or scan of the diagram when you get time, Keith.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 15, 2010, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Wallphone on August 15, 2010, 07:48:41 PM
Keith, When you get around to taking pictures can you get one of the diagram? I have probably owned 40 WE 302's and not one ever had a diagram in it. Thanks.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on August 15, 2010, 08:09:35 PM
When I read what Keith wrote about the wiring diagram, I thought it strange too.  Perhaps since it was a phone made for an Independent, they put the wiring diagram inside.  I would also like to see a photo or scan of the diagram when you get time, Keith.
I'm certain it's the same generic WE302 diagram you've seen elsewhere. I also agree with Dennis' comment.  By the F1W handset, we know this is a non-Bell desk set and it's likely Western Electric included the wiring diagram for convenience of the independent's field installers.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 15, 2010, 11:56:45 PM
That's pretty neat Keith.  I don't think I've ever heard anyone even talk about getting a diagram inside a Western Electric phone.  But I don't get out much..........
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 16, 2010, 12:00:14 AM
Now that I've compared it to the diagram images I saw earlier, I notice it's different.  Now I'm glad I mentioned it, and you both asked for it.  How'd you guess I have a scanner  ???

Edit: I should mention, I didn't do any more sanding with 1000 grit tonight.  The light fixture went up in less than 30 minutes, but reading all 64 pages of Dan/Panther's legendary 1948 '500' thread was quite the adventure.  Maybe we should organize an expedition to Murray Hill, NJ for the Fall? ;)
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Doug Rose on August 16, 2010, 07:45:45 AM
I have seen them from time to time, usually folded and tucked under the ringer. I know I have a few, but I'm not going to start opening phones to find one!.....Doug
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 18, 2010, 09:18:38 PM
Yeesh :-\ I forgot how quickly the higher-grit sandpapers get the job done, after you've thoroughly completed all the coarse work.  The 1000 grit worked quickly evening out the scratches remaining from the 600 grit.  I rinsed it well and let it air dry, and it looked good enough so I took the 2000 grit to it.  After all that, I made the trip to Home Depot for the Ryobi palm buffer/polisher ($25 these days) and picked up wire brushes and buffing wheels for my Dremel tool.  I was disappointed :( to find they didn't stock any brass brushes, only steel. 

So now everything's received two separate treatments of Novus # 20, followed by Brasso and a then buffing and polishing.  I can't start reassembling her until the dial porcelain overlay/decal arrives and I clean up all the electrical contacts.  As soon as she's back together, I'll take pictures for everyone, probably by this weekend.

Thanks for all your encouragement!!
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 18, 2010, 11:56:53 PM
Keith, I found that the brass brushes lose their bristles much quicker than the steel ones.  I only buy the steel brushes now.  You have to be careful with those things.  They fly everywhere.  Make sure you protect your eyes.  I have more than one of those bristles get stuck in my clothes, slivers, etc.  I bought a leather apron from eBay and wear that when I'm working.  I do much of my work under one of those large magnifying glasses that mounts to the bench.  It has a ring fluorescent lamp around it.  That help to protect the flying bristles from getting into my eyes AND I can see better for detail work.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 19, 2010, 01:43:28 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience, Dennis.  I believe you about the bristles flying loose.  I've had wire threads stuck into my fingertips more times than you might imagine.  Maybe I'll just buy a nice, old-fashioned wood-handled brass brush and stick to that.

If you've never used it to clean metal parts before, I can highly recommend Bar Keepers Friend (BKF).  It contains oxalic acid which has a stronger affinity for the oxygen atom than does rust (iron oxide) or oxidation of most metals, including steel, silver, copper and brass.  About the only place you shouldn't use it is anything made of aluminum, where it will cause pitting.  It certainly cleaned up the brass bells on this old WE302 fairly quickly last weekend.  ;D  Now all the Brasso has to do is polish them.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 19, 2010, 02:38:10 PM
Keith, I happen to have a can of Bar Keeper's Friend.  I love that stuff.  I never even thought to try it on the brass gongs.  I'll give it a shot.  Thanks.

I wouldn't give up on the wire wheel.  It has many uses.  One just has to take precautions against flying bristles.
Title: Okay, I forgot to document something
Post by: KeithB on August 19, 2010, 09:13:25 PM
When I removed the contacts, elements, and wires from the F1W handset in preparation for cleaning and polishing, I neglected to document them.  :-[  :-[  :-[

Does anyone have descriptions or diagrams of the F1 handset wiring available?  I'd hate to screw it up because I was forgot something so simple.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 19, 2010, 09:46:54 PM
Keith, I don't have a diagram but I'd be glad to take a picture of one for you.  The first time I removed all the hardware I put the receiver contacts in wrong.  It won't work if you do.

I'll snap a picture of one and post it here. 
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 19, 2010, 10:18:45 PM
Here you go, Keith.  When I run the red and white wires through the handset, I put red on the left and white on the right.  Let me know if these don't help.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 19, 2010, 10:33:54 PM
That definitely helps, Dennis.  Mine is actually an F1W, and has the conductors to the earpiece molded into the Bakelite handle, as well as another component between red and black beneath the mouthpeice.  But the layout of the contacts and wires appears to be the same, and that's what had me concerned.  I think I may have put it back together right.  I'll compare my re-assembly against your photos, and post back in a few minutes.

Thanks again!!   ;D
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 19, 2010, 10:47:37 PM
Dennis, your photos DEFINITELY helped relieve my concerns.  I've got the same shaped contacts in the same positions, and the same red / black / white wire placement beneath the mouthpiece.  Why I didn't take pictures of the inside of the handset, I'll never know. I was just too excited to be tearing it down, I guess.  I wrote up everything else for wiring connections, but failed to document this one part.

Now that the phone is mostly back together, I'm still waiting on two other items:
1) dencins is recovering the feet, so I hope they'll be back next week some time.
2) the dial porcelain overlay hasn't arrived yet, either.

Lastly, the plug was cut off the straight rubber-coated line cord, so I'll need to either replace it, or crimp on some spade connectors and use a pigtail to a wiring block, unless anyone else has better suggestions.

Thanks greatly, Dennis.  :)
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on August 19, 2010, 11:13:46 PM
You're welcome. 
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: HarrySmith on August 20, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
Here is a page from PhoneCo, there are a few ways to terminate your line cord. I usually use the plug # 212 on the page. You can use it with or without spades.
http://www.phonecoinc.com/category.asp?rpage=search&category=Acc#01022
Can't wait to see pictures of the finished product :)
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on August 21, 2010, 02:32:47 PM
Thanks to dencins :) on this forum and courtesy of oldphoneguy.net, my WE302 cleanup is about 95% complete.   ;D Friday evening recovered feet arrived from dencins and the dial porcelain overlay came in from oldphoneguy.net.  I'm still waiting for a line cord, then I'll probably put a final coat of wax/polish over the shell and handset, now that the initial treatment with Novus # 2 has cured and the poor plastic shell has had time to recover from all the stress. 

I have a lot of empathy for that plastic shell right now.  I've visited the dentist twice in the last two weeks, receiving a deep periodontal cleaning.  :(
Title: Getting a WE302 - It's Alive!!
Post by: KeithB on August 24, 2010, 08:20:26 PM
I'm going to thank Dennis Markham one last time, right before I tell you my WE302 is alive, dialing, ringing, and well.  ;D

I took a few pictures, but with three little long-haired doggies (Yorkies!) running around the house, there's a LOT of lint on the phone, and digital cameras with flash *LOVE* to show every tiny bit of lint imaginable, especially the ones most eyes can't see.   I'll have to wipe it down with some pledge and a lint-free cloth, then take some new pictures.  It doesn't shine blindingly (like one of Dennis's) but it sure looks a heckuva lot better than it did when I received it.

Next up is the North Electric Galion. . .

Title: Pictures of my first WE302
Post by: KeithB on September 06, 2010, 08:36:11 PM
I finally found a proper camera and took pictures of the 302.  It received a full interior clean-up, a replacement line cord, a vinyl overlay for the dial porcelain, recovered feet, a repainted fingerwheel, a laser-printed dial card, and a good amount of clean-up and sanding.  To get an idea of how much, I'm including two of the original auction photographs.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on September 06, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
It looks very nice, Keith.  You did a nice job on the dial card...but I like the original one, even though it's a later card---once Area Codes were used.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on September 06, 2010, 09:49:45 PM
The one in the auction photo was a stick-on, covering an intermediate card.  Here's a photo of the original card next to my laser-printed one:
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: Dennis Markham on September 06, 2010, 09:51:26 PM
Great, the original card hidden below.  Nice card.  Nice job on the reproduction too.
Title: Re: New here - Getting a WE302
Post by: KeithB on September 06, 2010, 09:56:44 PM
I had never compared the two until you mentioned the later one from the auction photos.  I used the image from a PDF file I found at oldphoneguy.net and now I notice the word "Wait" in script is too small. :(  Looks like I get to play with it some more.  ;)