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Solid brass 302?????

Started by RotarDad, August 26, 2018, 07:42:07 PM

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RotarDad

Just listed on EBay:

www.ebay.com/itm/163222638275

It sure does look like a brass casting - what is the origin of this??

Seller description:

"Yes, the word rare is way over used in this forum but I think not in this instance.  I am selling my Western Electric rotary phone that comes with a solid brass polished case.  It is not plated but indeed solid cast brass.  I do not know the provenance of this other than I have had it for the past 30+ years.  The best information I have available is that it may have been a materials test prototype or a retirement set given to someone.  I have not seen another solid brass base like this, ever.  The parts look to be all there with the exception of the plug in cord, it is cut off at the base.  The condition looks great to me but you need to judge it for yourself base on the photos.  If you need more, just let me know.  I have no clue if it works or not as it does  not have the phone plug and I do not have a land line to check it on anyway."



Paul

Pourme

I read the description and looked at the pictures. Pictures of the inside don't look like brass to me.

I could be wrong.
Benny

Panasonic 308/616 Magicjack service

rdelius

At COT we used to sell brass and later gold plated 302 sets.That one is not one of them. Had brass fingerwheels on our sets

Ktownphoneco

Without having it in my hands to examine, I won't put money on it, but from the listing pictures it looks like a cast brass case to me.    The issue that reinforces the issue are the dates of everything inside the set that has a date stamp.    Basically in the first quarter 1938 changes were still taking place with the 302.    The pictures obviously aren't "National Geographic" quality, but looking at the picture of the inside showing the dial, which is the last picture in the seller's sequence, notice the threaded hole on the left where the base screw threads into the case to hold it in place.     The threads appear as bare brass from the teeth on the tap.   The internal surface of the case is as it was after the mold was removed, which was probably a sand mold, and a certain amount of the mold material would would stick to the molten brass and would remain there after the case cooled.    The finger opening at the back of the case bears machining marks, which is another clue to the puzzle.   The dial cavity hasn't been machined as deeply as the pot metal cases.     The type 5 dial sits about as high as the later plastic 302's equipped with a type 6 dial.      The type 6 dials being slightly higher than the type 5 dials.    The internal wiring connectors seem to support the 1938 style of fastening connectors to the wires by soldering same.  The condenser harness and clapper appear to be correct as well.
My question would be, was the case made at the Western Electric plant, or somewhere else.    A possible check to get a better idea and confirm the case is brass, is ask the seller to weigh the set and compare it to the weight of a known and complete factory metal case set.    I would imagine a 302 with a solid brass case would weigh significantly more than a standard metal set.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Jeff Lamb

Doug Rose

#4
Someone in the 90s made these very heavy brass shells. The were much heavier than a metal 302. They did not fit correctly on the base. Dial hole was a tad too big. I owned one that I found on CL. The inside was not pretty. They looked great from a distance. This is probably one of them. Buyer Beware....Doug

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2175.msg28942#msg28942
Kidphone

jsowers

What's up with the markings inside the phone? It looks like an "RK" in one picture and then in another picture it's gone. I circled it in the first picture which I have also lightened some. Also this housing has a slightly crude look to it like the one Doug was describing. I wouldn't get my hopes up. If there are no marks and the seller has cleaned everything off the inside then you won't have any proof where it came from.

Also, to tell if it's brass and not plated steel, a magnet would be all you'd need.
Jonathan

rdelius

Metal 302 sets were not steel but a zinc alloy so a magnet would not stick anyhow

Jim Stettler

VTS Industrial (dial guy Steve H.)  had some brass 302 housings made in Korea a long time ago.
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Payphone installer

Its a reproduction, I have seen this debate over the years every-time one of these turns up. Many years ago I was viewing  a collection for sale down in I think S/C. It was a guy who for years had restored old telephones and sold them to the public. He had a outbuilding that was stacked full of telephone stuff.  Why I was there I opened a closet and there was a bunch of reproduction VTS parts. They were really nice stuff. In the boxes were several brass 302 and yes 102 shells. I asked Steve about this years later and he confirmed that he had, had them made. If I recall it correctly he stated he made about 25 or so of the 302"s. So from that standpoint there are not many out there.

Doug Rose

#9
Jim....I didn't know the 102 was also in this batch. In my opinion it is much more true than the 302. It does NOT have a B1 marking on back. Much better finish. Inside is also much much better, but nowhere close to perfect.

This one I kept...Doug
Kidphone

Pourme

The inside of yours looks like brass, as opposed to the 302...
Benny

Panasonic 308/616 Magicjack service

Doug Rose

Benny....This looks like it was finished better than the 302s. The 302 did't sit right on the base either. I have owned this a while. Got it at a flea, I knew it wasn't real but it looked just so good. It also is much heavier than the real B1s. I can't let it go....Doug
Kidphone