Reducing noise in a 5H dial/D-1 clunking problem

[Sargeguy]

I had a display of phones for sale these last two weekends at a jewelry studio co-op.  A gentleman saw my phones and wanted to see if I could fix his phone, and the manager gave him my contact information.  The gentleman contacted me and we arranged to meet.  It turns out that he has a D-1/E-1 that he wanted new cords and a refinished base.  He also needs the dial replaced because it is too noisy.  I pointed out that it supposed to be that way, and that it was more desire able to keep it like that.  He did not seem to care and wanted a dial with less noise, and pointed to my 1940 302 as an example of what he wants.  We agreed that he would pay me $50 for the 3 cords and base re-sueding, throw in a crappy #6 and an E-1 handset with no transmitter assembly, and swap his 4H for a 5 H.  I thought that was reasonable since re- wiring a D-1 isn't so hard.  My problem is that none of my 5-HS sound as good as the one in the all matching date 1940, which I do not intend to part out.  Most of us enjoy the "clickety clack" and do not try to get the dial to sound smooth and silent.  What are some strategies starting with the most simple, for quitting a 5 H?   Assuming I blasted it with contact cleaner and oiled the pivot points on the gears already.

[Sargeguy]

I realized that some of my quietest dials were all on early 40s 302s.  Was 1940-44 the golden age of 5H manufacture?  No, it's just that the all metal bodies of a 302 deaden the sound better than plastic.  His D-1 is aluminum, not alloy, so the sound is a little sharper.  Another common variable is that these 40s phones are in excellent shape and have intact rubber gaskets that are still pliable.  I popped a 5H from 1950 and NOS gasket into the guy's D-1, and although the gasket seems to help, but there is still some "springy noise" on the return

[Phonesrfun]

The plastic body on a 302 does make for a noisier dial, in my opinion.

An early # 7 dial in a 500 sounds as bad as they come, although that is part of the "ambience" 

[Sargeguy]

This guy spent 10 minutes showing me the differences in sound of the three 5H dials I had on display and telling me what he did and did not like about them, such as "you here that little double twinge at the end?  I don't want that."  The guy is definitely a character.  The 4H is a nice, non converted specimen from IV 35, but with the effort I am putting into it I am fast approaching the 2AA dial rate.  I guess he will have to live the latest one I put on there.  Then again, he has a candlestick and doesn't like the sound of the dial on that one either  so I would like the repeat business.

[unbeldi]

I have a few spare 5HB dials, and just listened to them more carefully. One of them does seem a bit quieter. I do think the main factor is the amount of use they experienced, causing wear on the metal.
I'd be happy to trade a 5H for a 4H. :-)

[Matilo Telephones]

I am not familiar with the 5h dial, but here are some generic tips. Maybe you have done some of these things already.

Clean the inside surface of the governor.  I use a piece of dry paper tissue. The cheaper, rougher kind, works better. Although some dirt cannot it be seen, it is nevertheless there and causes sound.

Clean the "brake pads" of the governor. Same as above.

Of course, if possible on this design. Does that governor open?

Make sure all the gears are clean. Brush all the teeth. Use a toothpick if it is a bit sticky. If there is any dirt, they will woble a bit, as the dirt pushes the gears out when they rotate.

Same for the thingy that activates the pulse contact.

In case of a leaf spring, clean is as well. It makes sound as it unwinds on the return. Wipe and just a teeny drop of oil.

[Sargeguy]

Thanks for the info.  I usually just spray the dial with contact cleaner and some compressed air before lubricating the gear shafts and pivot points.  They usually work adequately enough after that since noise was never a problem.  I will try "detailing" a dial one of these days.

[Matilo Telephones]

I have had some "trouble" with dials not sounding right, to my liking. Especially ericsson dials (as found on the type 51) and the Standard dial (as found on the Standard 54). They making scraping sounds as they get dirtier over the years. Also the governor starts to "sing", it has an after chime it shouldn't have because of vibrations.

These cleaning steps makes them sound very much better. Also on other older type dials.

A while ago I soaked a S&H N30 dial in Naphta for a couple of days. It was covered in yellow sticky stuff, that once was a lubricant (I think/hope). Then oiled it. I have never had one of those sound so good, fresh and new.

[Sargeguy]

I was thinking of soaking some of my crustier dials.  Naptha you say?  I will give it a shot.

[LarryInMichigan]

I would offer him a nice quiet AE dial.

Larry

[Matilo Telephones]

I was thinking of soaking some of my crustier dials.  Naptha you say?  I will give it a shot.

Sort of naphta. It is a liquid locally known as wasbenzine, litteraly washing gasoline.

Wikipedia translates it as white gas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas

It is a mild solvent. It disolves grease and oils. Yet it leaves ink and paint. So numbering and printed letters remain. And it is harmless for most plastics. For instance you can clean sticker glue of ABS with it.

My father was a juweler. It is an old clockmakers trick to clean clockworks. They would even ad a little oil to it, so the immersion also oiled the clockwork. But that doesn´t work for dials. It would also oil the governor.

[unbeldi]

I subject sticky or dirty dials to 10 or even 15 minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner in warm water and some Dawn Powerclean.
Works every time and is gently enough not to take off the markings, but at times they have become just a little thinner.
I do remove the parts that come off easily, such as dial plates, finger wheel, finger stop, etc, and most of the time they go into the bath as well, along with screws.
After drying, some oil in the strategic places usually produces a quieter operation.

[Sargeguy]

I may need to do this sooner than later as the dial has some issues:

When I depress the hook/plunger, I get a loud metallic clack in the receiver

When I begin to turn the dial I hear a pop when the switches contact.

The switches seem to operate normally, as do the contacts on the back of the dial as far as I can tell.

[Jack Ryan]

Sort of naphta. It is a liquid locally known as wasbenzine, litteraly washing gasoline.

Wikipedia translates it as white gas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas

"White Spirit"

Jack

[Dennis Markham]

Greg, I've had problems with "dial click" in the past, especially on a 5H dial after I had worked on it.  More than likely I bumped the contacts on the back.  Steve Hilsz offered me a possible solution.  This solution has worked for me on several occasions.

Look at this posting:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4848.0

Go to reply #2 (by me).  There is a pdf attachment with Steve's explanation.

It's a possible solution to what you're experiencing.

~Dennis