Space Saver in the UK

[andy1702]

So I've won this on E-Bay. The interesting thing is it was already on this side of the pond! I fear I've over paid for it though. It will have cost just short of 80 GBP including the postage, which is abpout 3 times what I've ever paid for a phone before! But I've always quite liked this design and the postage to import one would be crazy money.

Wiring diagram please anyone?

[FABphones]

Ah-ha, so it was you!

It sold for more than the sellers Muraphone auction (£40 ish for a Muraphone, someone got a bargain).

Where will you be fitting this one? Do post pics when it's insitu and give us an update. 

[HarrySmith]

Diagram is in our wiring section:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19383.0

[Key2871]

But it looks nice and complete. 

[jsowers]

But it looks nice and complete.

What you see is only half the phone. It's nice and yes it looks to have all its parts, but you need a subset to make the phone complete and work as originally intended. There is no network or ringer inside a WE 211 space saver phone. It also came with a metal hanger for the handset when you needed to leave the phone for a minute. That may have been optional, but it was included on some original installations. Below is a wiring diagram showing the phone with its subset (sometimes called a subscriber set).

[poplar1]

With G-type handset as shown, it would normally be used with a 685A subset.
Except on long loops, using a G1 or G3 handset with a 684A subset will cause excessive sidetone.

[andy1702]

Yes, FabPhones, it was me! 

What you guys are calling a subset seems to be the same as what we call a bellset over here. basically a connector block, bell coils, a couple of capacitors and an induction coil. Is that right? If it is then my thinking is the capacitors can probably be dispensed with because the UK system has the required cap in the wall socket and we normally bypass the ones in our own old phones (which were made pre-wall sockets being introduced). I'm also not overly bothered about the bells as there are more than enough phones that ring on the system here when a call comes in!

So the plan is to try to make something using a spare induction coil, possibly from an old GPO 746. I know one thing... the chances of getting the correct subset over here are basically nill and I do need to find a way of fabricating cheap bellsets because I've got a couple of other projects that also need them. It's on the limits of my electrical know-how though, so it might take some time to complete.

[andy1702]

Dpoes anyone have the wiring diagram for the Western Electric 684-BA subset? The plan is to build something similar from cheap Uk parts from scrapped 7xx series phones. I'm not particularly bothered about the bells or the capacitor as that's in the socket on the wall these days in the uk. What i do need to know though is how to wire in an induction coil to stop the DC line voltage damaging the receiver. Although now the phone has arrived and I've had a quick look inside, it does look awfully like it's just been wired up to the UK line with the red and green wires direct.

Any thoughts on if this would or would not be ok?

[poplar1]

Again, with a T1 transmitter and U1 or U3 receiver, you should use a 685A subset, or a 425-type or 4228 network (the networks used in 500-series WE/NE/ITT/S-C sets). There are 5 wires between the 685A subset (or 425/4228 network) and the 211L/212L.

The mounting is stamped G7  (212L). This indicates that it does have the extra BL terminal for the jumper to BK on dial, so that the B terminal can be used for isolating the black handset conductor.

See Figure 5 in BSP Section 502-301-102, Issue1, in TCI Library.

[andy1702]

Again, with a T1 transmitter and U1 or U3 receiver, you should use a 685A subset, or a 425-type or 4228 network (the networks used in 500-series WE/NE/ITT/S-C sets). There are 5 wires between the 685A subset (or 425/4228 network) and the 211L/212L.

The mounting is stamped G7  (212L). This indicates that it does have the extra BL terminal for the jumper to BK on dial, so that the B terminal can be used for isolating the black handset conductor.

See Figure 5 in BSP Section 502-301-102, Issue1, in TCI Library.

Thanks for the info. The problem I have here is that I'm wanting to use UK parts because US bits are quite scarce over here. If I could find an old network that would be ideal, but we never had networks here, just components like inductuon coils, capaciotrs and resistors etc. So I'm wondering what the terminals on top of a network actually connect to inside? Must be an induction coil and a capacitor at least is my guess.

The thing is I've now opened up this space saver and found the end of a cut cord inside it. The cord had 4 conductors and only two are connected, the red and the green. So it looks like this phone has been in use without a subset (or bellset for uk readers). However, if I've understood things correctly (which I may not have) connecting tghis phone direct to a line will put line voltage through the receiver when it is off-hook, which could damage it over time. Can any of the more tech-savy folks confirm or deny this?

In the meantime I'll start hunting for a US style network.