I know this may sound odd, but I happen to think the Leich bakelite convertibles are great looking phones. Probably this is a subjective opinion, much the way some folks love the WE500, while others consider them useless clutter.
When I was a kid in rural New-Brunswick we had (I think) a Leich 901 party line phone at the cottage. I remember dad spinning the magneto to place calls. This would have been in the mid to late 1970's, and, believe it or not, I think it was replaced by a reconditioned NE500 when the phone company stopped offering party line service in our area. Those phones are long gone and it was so long ago that nobody remembers for certain if I have the models right, but I think I have the models right. I was very young, but remember dad being upset that his bill was going up due to party service not being offered any longer.
So here's how things went. I decided I wanted to get an original 901, but to be useful, I wanted to convert it to a dial model and use it in my house. I have a Rogers VOIP dedeicated network service, so I ordered a dialgizmo in advance. I then bought a Leich 901 on e-bay in nice shape, fairly local (same province), and started hunting for a dial conversion kit (a forum member is sending me one - thanks!).
Then the seller contacted me to say the phone had been already sold and due to a mixup was accidentally re-listed. I had to find a new phone. I was already committed, so I opted for what seems to be a really exceptional early 901 off e-bay USA. I know I overpaid a bit, but this phone spent its life as the emergency phone in an elevator and looks to have basically never been used. I intend to convert it to dial and use it as a bedside phone at home.
I don't have it yet (it's in customs), but here is a picture:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDEwMjQ=/z/d7sAAOxyoA1RT7ey/$T2eC16ZHJI!E9qSO9e-QBRT7e)ODRQ~~60_57.JPG -->
( dead external image link 7-22-17 )This is an early 901 with metal base. Here's the seller's description, which is colourful:
QuoteThis telephone is hand-me-down item through our family. It came from Denver's Old Republic Building, one of the first 20+ story buildings that Denver had. The telephone came from the open cage elevators that used to run in the building. The elevators were very scary, they had open grate floors and sides, and you could see the weights going up and the full distance the elevator traveled. The elevators were run by an attendant, who had access to these phones should there be any kind of "problem". A quick crank of the phone would bring assistance from maintenance or the front desk. The phones were mounted vertically in the elevators, but will also sit and operate horizontally. The phone is in great condition, no chips breaks or scratches. There are no manufactures labels on the outside of the phone. Ringer works when crank is turned. A true piece of denver history.
Then a nice bakelite 901 showed up here on the trader c/w dial conversion kit, an AE dial (not installed) and a blanking plate. Honestly, I could not pass it up at the price it was offered for. I have no ideal if it works and it's probably still wired for local battery (?). Still, I hope to get this bakelite based version up and running as well now for living room phone :)
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9537.0;attach=52975;image)
Looks like I may need another dialgizmo... lol.
My favorite part about the 901? The vented spit cup. It just SCREAMS 1950's. I love it.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjgyWDEwMjQ=/z/kisAAOxy9eVRT7e3/$T2eC16FHJGoE9nuQeVy(BRT7e27I2Q~~60_57.JPG -->
( dead external image link 7-22-17 )I'll post photos showing any differences between the two types of 901 chassis, if any, when both phones get here :)
Does anyone know when the 901 went into service?
QuoteMy favorite part about the 901? The vented spit cup. It just SCREAMS 1950's. I love it.
Actually, the handset design goes back to the 1940s. That handset is not the most comfortable to hold, but the one that replaced it is much worse.
Larry
Well, I think it will be fine for the amount of use it will get. Thanks for the warning tho!
Aesthetically it's beautiful as handsets go, if not the most ergonomic.
Some of the European handsets I have are serious unergonomic. The one on my Belgian ATEA "kettle" phone may be the worst.
Larry
Makes you wonder if one of the reasons for making sets like the 653A with separate transmitter and receiver until at least 1945 was to make people get off the phone quicker---fewer complaints from others on the same party line and less equipment needed in the C.O. since there was less traffic.
maybe so. When I was a kid, in general, people didn't gossip on the phone, calls were reserved for conveying important information, like to arrange a gathering, inform of births, requesting help, etc. With dial service came long and unimportant chattery.
Well you will obviously need a third 901 now. One with dial and two magneto's to hook together as an intercom!
I think that I have 4 of them in total but none with dial.....yet....
Terry
Well the first phone came in. This is the one from Denver with the metal base plate. No obvious date on the chassis, but based on the transmitter and receiver markings, I believe this to be a 1949 phone.
Overall the phone is in nice condition, though there is a .75" long hairline crack in the shaft of the handset. It's nowhere near all the way through and looks solid. I think it will be fine and frankly, I had to really scrutinize the phone to see it.
Overall it's fairly grungy in the nooks and crannies, clearly been stored for many a year, but will in nice original shape.
I do have one question - see the little coil spring in this picture - what's it supposed to be hooked to? I have not yet rewired the phone for common battery since I'm waiting for the conversion kit to arrive from forumer poplar1, but the phone rings authoritatively when cranked and I'm at a loss to see how this spring fits int oteh whole equation - could someone else with a 901 open theirs up and check please?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image4_zps474e40ac.jpg) ( dead link 11/8/17 )
Here are some more pics of it. It's naked, the housing is in perfect condition - not scuffed enough to even bother polishing, though I still need to rub it down with some alcohol and a clean cloth the remove the dust and storage grime.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image5_zps10bc1002.jpg) ( dead link 11/8/17 )
6-17-49 transmitter marked HAI:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image6_zps77b58b04.jpg) ( dead link 11/8/17 )
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image7_zpse84360d8.jpg) ( dead link 11/8/17 )
8-48 F1 receiver:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image8_zpsa2fb800a.jpg) ( dead link 11/8/17 )
Could the spring be a ringer bias spring?
Larry
Claven2,
That's not in my bakelite base. Here's pic of my bias spring. Don't have a clue where your spring goes? stub
Could it be a spring off of the pawl on a dial? No idea what it would be doing inside a Maneto 901 set though. Is it attached to a string? What is that Hole in the metal base (?) with a hole filler plug in it? That may be a clue to something.
Terry
The metal bottom plate of my Leich 601L has a big round hole near the opposite rear corner. The layout of the condenser and ringer is much different with the ringer in the front and the condenser in the rear. There is a picture of the phone insides in my post from a couple of years ago: link (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3580.0).
Larry
Yes the spring is attached to a string that appears to be wrapped around a screw head at the other end (?). I can't see the bias spring in the above pictures - can someone put an arrow on it or something?
The hole in the bottom of the metal base is to route the line cord if wall mounted.
Claven2,
Here's the bias spring. stub
The ringer in my 601L is different and has no bias spring.
Larry
Quote from: stub on June 04, 2013, 07:10:32 AM
Claven2,
Here's the bias spring. stub
That doesn't look like a coil spring, or is the spring attached to the other end of that wire arm?
Quote from: AE_Collector on June 03, 2013, 11:54:15 PM
Could it be a spring off of the pawl on a dial? No idea what it would be doing inside a Maneto 901 set though. Is it attached to a string? What is that Hole in the metal base (?) with a hole filler plug in it? That may be a clue to something.
Terry
If this phone is convertible wall/desk, then perhaps the hole is for the wires going to the battery box and to the line. North and SC wall phones both have a similar hole.
Claven2,
The spring is straight and holds the hammer to one side of the bells to keep them from dinging when you dial from another rotary phone. Larry mentioned about a bias spring and I was showing what my 901 had. I still don't know what your spring is for . stub
Since it is tied with string in there I would imagine it is for something not in this phone. Maybe it holds the dial bracket back when installed? I seem to remember something on the bracket in the 1 Leich I restored a while back.
Quote from: HarrySmith on June 04, 2013, 08:56:39 AM
Since it is tied with string in there I would imagine it is for something not in this phone. Maybe it holds the dial bracket back when installed? I seem to remember something on the bracket in the 1 Leich I restored a while back.
That sounds like a good guess. When the dial conversion kit arrives, I'll see if there is an obvious place to install it. I have a second 901 inbound with the dial bracket already installed so maybe it will be indicative.
I honestly can't fathom how it would be used in the current local batery magneto configuration.
Cool phone though - suprised they are not more pupolar.
Quote from: poplar1 on June 04, 2013, 08:22:07 AM
Quote from: AE_Collector on June 03, 2013, 11:54:15 PM
Could it be a spring off of the pawl on a dial? No idea what it would be doing inside a Maneto 901 set though. Is it attached to a string? What is that Hole in the metal base (?) with a hole filler plug in it? That may be a clue to something.
Terry
If this phone is convertible wall/desk, then perhaps the hole is for the wires going to the battery box and to the line. North and SC wall phones both have a similar hole.
The maintenance manual I found online for the 901 mentions this plug and it's supposed to be to provide an alternate egress for the cords than the two openings on the back of the phone so that you can do a wall mount install with hidden wires.
All the dial 901s parts phones (no housings) in Sonny's warehouse have 20-cycle frequency ringers so they don't have biasing springs which would be necessary on dial lines. They don't have a spring to hold down the dial bracket. However, your spring with the string attached is similar to the spring on WE 8A ringers in the 534A subset. This design allows a shorter spring than the kind used in the large coil ringers in an older AE 40.
I think the spring was for the ringer if there are no notches for adjusting the tension as pictured above in the other 901s. Is there any documentation other than the wiring diagram on converting from Local Battery (magneto and battery) to Common Battery?
I haven't found any other conversion documentation. I'll do some exploratory disassembly later tonight and report back on the ringer configuration.
Do you still have the link for the maintenance manual you found online?
Here you go!
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/496-gsp-473-414-200-leich-900-series-magneto-telephones (http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/496-gsp-473-414-200-leich-900-series-magneto-telephones)
So I did a little exploration and I think I have it figured out. There's a small hook on the ringer lever arm that I think the spring attaches to. Sadly when I tried to hook it, the ancient thread that ties it to the screw broke - it was pretty weak. It's easily replaced though when I dis-assemble the phone for full cleaning, dial conversion and re-assembly :)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/IMG_20130604_205210_zps20206c55.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/Claven2/media/phones/IMG_20130604_205210_zps20206c55.jpg.html)
So I was right :)
Larry
I suppose so, though this seems very crude. I guess tension is regulated by the length the string is tied? Seems kinda imprecise...?
Larry,
Way to go Larry. 8) stub
Claven2,
I was finally able to open up my metal base 901; couldn't get the mag crank to back off, previously.
I found the same spring/string setup as you have. Pic enclosed. I hope this is some help.
Best regards!
On the 1920s type ringers, the string attached to the spring was often a string tied to a screw on the other end. The tension was adjusted by turning the screw.
Larry
Yes, perfect. Interestingly mine had been detached for a while as the spring was rusted from sitting at the bottom of the chassis. Yet the ringer was still works ng well! Guess its importance is not great.
The spring isn't necessary when hand generators are used (local battery line).
If the spring is missing on a common battery line (batteries and ringing current at the central office), the bells may tap when dialing or hanging up.
Sometimes, you can prevent bell tap by just reversing the polarity of the set or the ringer, but usually you want to have a spring.
On the other hand, some people prefer bell tap so they know when someone is dialing or hanging up. Not standard procedure, but easier than installing busy lamps.
ok, makes sense. Well I'm re-wiring to common battery, so I'll make sure to re-affix the spring when re-assembling. Most of the screws on the base were rusted, despite the base itself being rust free, so I have those soaking in evaporust while I wait for the conversion kit. Will likely do all the wiring changes at once so I only have to re-tie the wiring harness one time.
I forgot to mention that the spring is needed only for straight line ringers like this one. These are the type ringers used on most lines. The "harmonic" or frequency ringers used on certain party lines do not have a spring.
Thanks for the info - you seem to know more about the 901 than anyone else I've yet heard from :)
No, the only thing I knew about 901s was that you could connect them together or with antique wall magneto phones. I'm just talking in general about LB vs CB. I didn't even know that 901s could be converted from LB to CB.
Well I have a copy of the wiring diagram for converting from LB to CB and I would characterize the wiring changes as "extensive". It's not just swapping two wires. You have to change position on 7 or 8 leads, you need the adaptor kit, and you have to remove the entire magneto assembly and disconnect it. Not impossible, but not a 5 minute job either.
Still, I really like the look of the phones converted to dial. Such great early lines to them and that lovely all-bakelite convertible case.
Allright, so I'm impatient. I couldn't sit and wait until I had everything, so I carefully untied all the wiring harness. It was tied with waxed cotton cord. I got it all off intact, and will probably re-wax it with beeswax and re-install the originals. I also disconnected the magneto and removed it without damaging the original insect netting glued over the vent holes in the metal chassis.
Unfortunately, two of the screw holding down the magneto were so corroded the heads snapped off. They looked OK on the outside, but there was cement-like rust in the threads. Luckily I have a pretty extensive machine shop, so I precision drilled them out in the mill without damaging the threaded holes in the chassis.
I also removed the magneto cover from the case.
Everything looks to be in good nick inside the phone with the exception that the induction coil has some delamination between the metal sheets and some surface rust. I think this phone may have gotten wet or was poorly stored at some point. I'll have to check if poplar1 has any spare coils on junker phones since I have no way to check if this one is still good and I'd hate to have it all back together only to find out it's too deteriorated :( (fingers crossed) It's a Code 28, part No. 11991 indiction coil, Leich Electric Company marked.
Fun project so far.
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on June 04, 2013, 11:22:07 PM
On the 1920s type ringers, the string attached to the spring was often a string tied to a screw on the other end. The tension was adjusted by turning the screw.
Larry
i took it right down earlier tonight, and you're right, there is a captive spool screw on the other end for winding in the string to adjust tension. Keep this up and everyone will assume you have all the answers!
Just a handy hint for replacing the string for bias springs.
Most experienced telephone restorers use dental floss since it looks very close to the original and finding an equivalent product may be difficult to find or means having to buy an excessive amount.
Plus, depending on your choice of floss, you can also give it that refreshingly fresh minty smell!
Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Somewhere here I have a roll of the braided rope-like stuff, though I only use the ribbon type for actual flossing - lol.
It looks like the waxed lacing string but probably was an untaxed (unWaxed....darn IPad...) version. I saw a cable splicer throwing 3 rolls of it in the garbage a couple of weeks ago while cleaning out his truck. I rescued one roll for a lifetime supply.
Terry
no, it's definitely waxed. Most of the wax is still there except at the very ends which are frayed a little. I need to rub in some more way so they hold together well enough to be re-tied.
Quote from: Claven2 on June 06, 2013, 12:50:37 PM
I need to rub in some more way so
You have an Ipad as well!
Terry
Yes, but my nexus phone is to blame for that one - lol
Hmm... so I re-wired the phone tonight using the dial conversion/common battery diagram and got mixed results.
My home line is through the cable company. They use a phone-specific VOIP, and I don't have a dial or a dialgizmo yet so I can't test dialling.
I used a wall-mount junction box to connect the 4-conductor line to a short modular plug, to the wall jack.
The handset definitely works. I did the tests without the casing on, so the phone responds as soon as it's plugged in (off hook).
Now the odd part. When I plug the phone in, I get a nice strong dial tone, but it immediately starts to fade in volume. Also, toggling the hook switch does not disconnect the call.
Could this be due to a failing induction coil?
Also, the common battery wiring diagram only shows a 3 conduct line in, but if I leave the red line wire disconnected like in the common battery diagram for the 901, I get nothing other than faint interference from the house wiring. If I touch the red wire to the No.2 position on the wiring diagram, or if I touch it to the No.3 position (shared with the yellow line wire) I get dial tone.
HELP!
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/ScreenShot2013-06-06at104218PM_zpsd6572610.png) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
You only need to connect red and green of the line cord to L1 and L2. Don't worry that they are listed as Y (yellow) and G (green) on the diagram. You don't have to connect anything to the terminal GRD.
Also, run a jumper wire between 10 and 11 until you have a dial.
What about the fading dial tone issue - what is causing that?
Did you place a temporary wire between 10 and 11?
no, I moved the green hookswitch wire from 11 to 10 like the instructions indicated, I didn't shunt it yet. I can try that later tonight.
Just tried it before work. Shunted 10 and 11 and disconnected the yellow and black line wires. I get tone as before, but still fades out to nothing over 20 seconds or so.
I'm thinking either coil or capacitor. Thoughts?
Ron, if you moved the hook switch wire, that is the same as having the jumper wire. Sorry, I didn't read the fine print in the notes on the diagram.
Are you able to hear steady dial tone on this phone if another phone on the line is off-hook?
I tried that last night, and no I can't. It performs the same way where the dial tone fades out over time. Toggling the hook switch brings the signal back to full strength and then it fades again.
I'm thinking it may be the degraded induction coil not keeping up with the voltage requirements of the transmitter, but I'm not sure why the hook switch doesn't seem to be disconnecting the call. Could be a symptom of the same problem...(?)
Also when I had the red line wire incorrectly at position 2, and I was toggling the hook switch, I accidentally got connected to a wrong number... not sure how. Maybe I mimicked a pulse dial?
There should be a technical bulletin GTEP 473-414-900AE - Modification to Dial or Battery Operation. I would think that this would give detailed instructions to convert to dial operation in addition to the schematic diagram. I haven't been able to find this document anywhere.
Quote from: JohnInWI on June 07, 2013, 02:46:13 PM
There should be a technical bulletin GTEP 473-414-900AE - Modification to Dial or Battery Operation. I would think that this would gived detailed instructions to convert to dial operation in addition to the schematic diagram. I haven't been able to find this document anywhere.
Unfortunately only
473-414-200 Leich 900-Series Magneto Telephones is shown in the TCI Library.
• http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/496-gsp-473-414-200-leich-900-series-magneto-telephones
There is other documentation for them though.
Progress!
My second "Leich 901 with AE dial" arrived in the mail today. It's not really what I expected, but may be a blessing in disguise. For starters, it appears the second phone is NOT actually a Leich 901 - I think it's a Leich 653 (!).
It's a later production phone that came with the factory dial bracket and spacer. The dial "blank" is actually not really a blank, it's a push-button hookswitch latch. The phone had already been re-wored to common battery (not sure if factory or done at someone's home?). The hookswitch latch was disabled in the phone and the ringer was also disconnected and contact isolated with electrical tape.
Despite it being a phone with these unusual features, all the wiring is really grungy, lots of surface rust on the internals, and the capacitor casing is split pretty bad. The bakelite is all solid, though dull and the rubber foot gromets are totally worn to nothing. Interestingly when I plugged it in, I got a great dial tone and it received calls beautifully.
I was able to compare my wiring on the better condition early 901 and I had it all right. My wiring job is not the issue. Comparing the two phones more directly, I think my issue is the hook switch. When the dial tone on the 901 starts to fade, if I jiggle the hook switch contacts, the dial tone jumps back to life. This phone is also ringing nicely and apart from the sketchy hook switch works very well after all.
I did replace the induction coil on the 901 with the one from the 653. They are the same part, thankfully and the 653 coil was in far better condition. I think for now, I'm going to cannibalize the 653 to get the 901 up and running and will get the parts to put the 653 right later on.
I have to decide whether to try and fix (clean? adjust? dunno?) the original hook switch on the 901, or to solder in the working switch from the 653.
Finally, the "Automatic Electric" dial I thought I was going to receive with the second phone is instead a Kellog dial. Anyone know if this dial will work on my phone? It's a bit sluggish so I will likely have to tear it down for a clean and lube.
This is before I did any parts swapping. 901 on left, 653 on right (I already removed the dial bracket):
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/DSCN4648_zps3b79391c.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Cracked capacitor housing in the 653 - wonder how that happened? I'm guessing the cardboard liner got wet and swelled at some point, but who knows?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/DSCN4649_zpsfe9e9eae.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
grungy wiring.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/DSCN4650_zpsd1f62481.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Leich push-button hook switch latch blank.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/DSCN4651_zps3ff898a9.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Hmm... doesn't look like an AE dial to me? Will this work for me???
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/DSCN4652_zps08ea416d.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Original wiring diagram found inside the "653":
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/DSCN4653_zps9cd83589.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Interestingly, I like this 6XX series diagram better for the 901 than the actual 901 diagram...?
The contacts on the hook switch can be cleaned with electronic contact cleaner spray and some paper. Thick brown paper is good. The Kellogg dial is a copy of the AE design and can be used.
Larry
Thanks Larry. I cleaned the contacts using lighter fluid and a thinned-down Q-tip. It seems to be working OK now. I had to clean the dial mount with some dish soap and a soft toothbrush. The Kellogg dial fits the mount just fine. I'll have to make a wiring harness for it though, since I don't have one.
Anyone know how to clean and calibrate this dial? Is there a manual?
I'm also retie-ing the wiring harness. So far so good.
ok, I have the dial partly disassembled and am progressing through cleaning. I'm using this manual for an S-C Type 51A dial, which seems to be a clone of the AE 3" dial, or the Kellogg 21D.
http://www.strombergcarlsontelephone.com/kellogg/PDF/AUTOMATIC%20ELECTRIC%20DIALS.pdf (http://www.strombergcarlsontelephone.com/kellogg/PDF/AUTOMATIC%20ELECTRIC%20DIALS.pdf)
Obviously, I'm not using TCE as the manual suggests, but rather lighter fluid and a series of toothbrushes, Q-tips and pipe cleaners.
Not sure yet what I'll use for lube, but I'm leaning towards modern Superlube Synhtetic as it does not degrade over time.
Dial is back together, properly lubed, and all the contacts gauge within spec according to the SC shop manual I posted using feeler gauges. It's nice and smooth now.
HOWEVER...
The Leich wiring diagrams show a 4-wire harness from the circuit to the dial's 5 contact points, colours W,G,Y and an unspecified color 4th wire. Here is a blown up view of that part of the diagram:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/leichdialdiagram_zps1a749597.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
My Kellogg 21D (clone of an A-E 51-A dial) has six contact terminals. Two of the terminals are shunted together (This matches Leich the wiring diagram that shows terminals 2 and 3 shunted together with the Green wire connected to this shunted pair).
Here is a pic (prior to cleaning) showing my terminal layout:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/dialterminals_zps88de6b21.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Here is a pic I found in another online reference showing the typical 51-A dial connection layout, but is also shows only 5 terminals, 2 of which are shunted. No mention of the 6th terminal I have.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/AEdiagram_zpscf1c5809.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
I'm assuming that terminals 1 and 2 on my dial correspond to terminals BK* and GN* respectively, which are the top 2 contacts on the Leich diagram. Terminal 3 would not be connected to anything, only shunted to terminal 2.
This is where I'm getting uncertain. Which terminals on my dial correspond to RD* and WH*? I think that RD* = Y on the leich diagram and WH* is the bottom-most contact on the Leich diagram running to network position 8.
So...
is RD* terminal 4, or 5?
is WH* terminal 5 or 6?
I believe WH* = network position 8 = terminal 6, but I am much less sure about RD*.
I'm leaning towards RD* = terminal 4 because when the pawl is at rest, terminal 4 is totally disconnected, while the spring attached to terminal 5 touches the pawl which is connected the the central dial shaft, which could energize the finger wheel (?).
when the dial is at rest, terminals 5 and 6 are connected through the springs. Terminal 4 is not connected to any other terminal and terminal 3 and 2 are shunted. When dialing, terminals 2, 3, 4 and 5 are connected while terminal 6 is isolated.
Hopefully someone can let me know since I don;t have access to a pulse line yet to test different configurations.
Now off to the shop to solder up a wiring harness for the dial...
Quote from: Claven2 on June 08, 2013, 04:47:43 PM
Dial is back together, properly lubed, and all the contacts gauge within spec according to the SC shop manual I posted using feeler gauges. It's nice and smooth now.
Do you have a link for the Shop Manual? I didn't realize until now that one is available on-line that shows the correct contact spacing. While it would be nice to have that information I am a bit confused to your reference to a SC shop manual though.
Thanks
Look two posts above - I posted the link. The manual is for Stromberg-Calrson phones, but covers most of the AE dial models. Most tolerances are in the .015 to .018" range. It's toward the end of the manual.
This is Kellogg Mike's "Stromberg-Carlson" web site, but since this is scanned from GTE Practices, it covers AE dials. Nothing to do with S-C. GTE owned AE.
Just ignore terminal 6 on the dial.
It is there for use with a Western Electric 302 or with a North 6H6 that is factory equipped for a WE dial. The WE dial opens the receiver; AE, Kellogg and others shunt the receiver. This dial can do either. It may have been a Signal Corps dial so that it could be used on any kind of phone.
Interestingly, I got it working before I read your post :) I had to remember the change the hookswitch lead from 10 to 11 and, it turns out, I used terminals 4 and 6 for leads RD* and WH* respectively. It's terminal 5 (on my numbered photograph) that I did not use. Leaving terminal 5 as the blank allows the phone to work brilliantly, sould I be concerned that I didn't use 6 instead?
I think this one is now done - and it looks and works beautifully. I have to get a line extension tomorrow so I can put it where it will see daily service.
Now I have to get started on the 653 phone. It's going to need a few parts as I cannibalized it a little to get the 901 up and running.
Loving the simple enamel dial with plain digits. Very minimalistic.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image_zps4f36716d.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
And by the way, completely tearing the dial down for a clean, lube and adjust according to the "GTE" manual was a fantastic idea - it works so much better now :)
Thanks popular1, I was wondering what Stromberg Carlson suddenly had to do with Automatic Electric.
Here is the same practice (it's not a manual) from the TCI site:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/70-gsp-997-300-500-i4-mar79-rotary-dials-shop-procedure
And Claven2, it's great that you a classic instrument up and running. Sadly they are not the most popular kids on the block and are often neglected.
Quote from: G-Man on June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM
Thanks popular1, I was wondering what Stromberg Carlson suddenly had to do with Automatic Electric.
Here is the same practice (it's not a manual) from the TCI site:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/70-gsp-997-300-500-i4-mar79-rotary-dials-shop-procedure
And Claven2, it's great that you a classic instrument up and running. Sadly they are not the most popular kids on the block and are often neglected.
Thanks :) I have no idea why these phones are not better regarded. The Leich 901 has great classic lines and very attractive bakelite. The handset is also aesthetically very nice. Frankly, I much prefer the 901's lines ot the ubiquitous WE500.
The Leich 653 I have is in MUCH worse condition, though the base and casing are sound and it does actually work. I think I'm going to restore it to the original hookswitch latch configuration and use it as a dial-less phone, assuming I can get the needed parts. I'll have to strip and re-paint the dial blank - it's pretty rough, but all there. I also need to solder on a new wiring harness, the old one is pretty frayed.
In other news, have made and rec'd my first calls on the new phone. I had thought my VOIP router (Scientific Atlantic on a Rogers Home Phone dedicated VOIP network) was NOT pulse compatible. I was wrong - it works with pulse dialling! I may still install the dialgizmo when it gets here so I can do # and * dialling though. Had I know in advance, I would not have ordered it. Oh well.
The phone is nice and clear - much clearer reception than I expected given the vintage of the phone. The only down side is my daughter is complaining about the acoustic shock she gets if she leaves the handset up to her ear when the other party hangs up first.
I think all these phones suffer from that, no? I can't remember all that well - it's been YEARS since I last actually used a vintage rotary phone.
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).
Looking at the photo of the Kellogg dial: Do contacts 5 and 6 open when dialing, and 3,4,5 close when dialing? If so, then a wire connected from 8 in the phone to 6 on the dial, when nothing is connected to 5 on the dial, appears to have no purpose.
Quote from: poplar1 on June 09, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).
Looking at the photo of the Kellogg dial: Do contacts 5 and 6 open when dialing, and 3,4,5 close when dialing? If so, then a wire connected from 8 in the phone to 6 on the dial, when nothing is connected to 5 on the dial, appears to have no purpose.
Contacts 5 and 6 are connected to each other when dialling, so I believe you can connect to either now that I've looked at it closer.
Quote from: poplar1 on June 09, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).
I'm assuming adding varistors was a later phenomenon? Certainly this phone never had one back in the day.
Quote from: Claven2 on June 09, 2013, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on June 09, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).
I'm assuming adding varistors was a later phenomenon? Certainly this phone never had one back in the day.
Oh, also, do you know what voltage varistor I would need?
Making a little progress on phone No.2 now. Stripped it all down to clean it. Some of the rusty parts are soaking in evaporust to get them back into shape. Phone 2 has good bones if I can get the missing parts. The casing is pretty good, though one of the convertible prongs has a hairline in it. I've glued it with CA, though will probably put another coat on the surface before sanding the area and buffing. Should be basically invisible. About .75" long, and not all the way through.
The baseplate, while bakelite, looks to perhaps be an earlier one. For example, the plate is molded for hex nuts, but all the nuts on it are of the early round type as seen on the brass-based phones.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image_zps0fcdf84a.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
All the recessed machine screw were way rusted, and one was missing. I made a replacement screw on the lathe for the missing one and the rest cleaned up nicely after an evaporust bath.
Here you can see where they, and their lock washers, were rusted into the baseplate. (since cleaned up)
(http://h%20ttp://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image2_zpsc842d95d.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Check out how rough the condenser is. Will need replacing methinks, though surprisingly it does still work.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image3_zpsd1e99cfc.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image7_zpsfbb04c25.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Looking pretty naked. Notice also a rubber foot is missing. Two of the feet are OK, one is a bit deformed and one is MIA.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image4_zps6e8a9c61.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
Here's the network with the old induction coil from the other phone mounted. Pretty dirty/ratty, but it will clean up. I'll likely replace the induction coil if I source a better one.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image5_zpsee84a80c.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
A fair bit of surface rust on some of the metal bits, but it will come off.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image6_zps164cdab3.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
The ringer is OK. I've since cleaner the bells and scrubbed off the light surface rust.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image8_zpsd0b97f87.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
At a bit of an impasse until I get more parts, other than maybe making some wiring harnesses.
The subset is all back together and re-installed, as is the ringer assembly. The old induction coil is still in place until I source a new one. Haven't put the old condenser back on - it's just too rough to save.
Notice almost all evidence of the rust is gone - magic! ;D
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image10_zpsb34fa0b8.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
The hairline in the shell has been glued, sanded and buffed. You can see it due to the bright flaw in this picture, but in-hand it's almost invisible and is in a non-obvious location. Only goes about 1/2 way through the handset hook.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/Claven2/phones/Image9_zps8fc6d073.jpg) ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
I know I'm nuts to restore 901's - likely I have more in them than they are worth - but it has been a fun and learning experience so far. I love the one I already have in service.