Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Pay Station Telephones => Northern Electric/Northern Telecom Pay Phones => Topic started by: martin on December 29, 2016, 10:51:54 AM

Title: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on December 29, 2016, 10:51:54 AM
Hello everyone!

I have dedicated quite some time (pretty much over 2 years - on and off - at this point) to Millennium payphones ever since I had a chance to play with one in Montreal. All this playing around with the Millennium phones went so far, as that I have currently one Deskset and two Multipay (wall-) units at home... Quite a nice collection ;-) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGblGT5UgAE_fHo.jpg)

Now I won't bore you to death about how difficult it is to get demo-code-firmware for those phones and how difficult it was to a write my own fake Millennium-Manager-backend (let's just say, that it (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxKUJgCXAAAuiUK.jpg) worked (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxKUKdsXcAIw7jc.jpg) and that I am currently polishing up the code, so I can make the backend (http://i.imgur.com/wrbr93I.png) accessible to other Millennium-enthusiasts out there...

But I do need some help...

As you can see in the picture of my collection, I have one Bell-device with the TTY/QWERTY-keyboard. Unfortunately, I got that device without the EEPROMs. Missing the Voiceware-EEPROMs is not that bad - the phone will also work without it and I can always just plug in an English/Spanish-EEPROM instead of the original English/French one...

But the Firmware-EEPROM is where things get interesting: While 99% of the keyboard-related things are handled outside the phone (sending emails, sms, etc.), a special firmware that is able to communicate with the keyboard is required.

I have had a very brief contact with a guy from Montreal who managed to get a Keyboard-Millennium with Bell Aliant-branding on Kijiji or Craigslist - EEPROMs included (they were labeled "NNK1F05 / MTR1.13 KEYBRD"). Unfortunately, he is not replying to my messages anymore...

So I am desperately looking for someone, who has a Keyboard-Millennium with Firmware-EEPROMs inserted.

If you happen to be that person (or know someone who owns such a device): please let me know! I'll trade you a copy of your EEPROMs for priority access to the backend, once it goes into Beta-testing ;-)

Martin
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 11:22:05 AM
Welcome!

Upfront... I don't have what you are looking for.

But I am curious of the technology and project.
I assume pin-compatible proms are still available in some format and that *you* are going to copy them?
No one has the images available ?
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on December 29, 2016, 11:28:21 AM
Quote from: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 11:22:05 AM
I assume pin-compatible proms are still available in some format and that *you* are going to copy them?

The EPROMs are standard-items - nothing out of the ordinary... Most firmware-ICs in the phones are M27C2001, most voiceware-ICs are M27C4001. If you cannot get those original ICs anymore, you can also replace them with a flash-based, pin-compatible IC like the SST39SF020A or the W27E040.

I would offer to copy them myself, if the person in question trusts me enough to ship them to me :)

Quote from: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 11:22:05 AM
No one has the images available ?

Unfortunately, so far I haven't found anyone who has these images. Of course, Telcos like Bell Canada or Bell Aliant still have them - but they tend to be quite secretive and not divulging anything... (Which is - if you ask me - completely unnecessary, as even when you get your hands on the firmware for the phone, you cannot do anything with it... You still need a backend/Millennium Manager...)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 11:47:23 AM
Quote from: martin on December 29, 2016, 11:28:21 AM
you cannot do anything with it... You still need a backend/Millennium Manager...)

Yes, I remember reading about that a couple of years ago or so, IIRC.  I think I still have the Millennium manual in PDF.

So you have taken on the task of writing a substitute manager application?
There is a project on Github, is that yours?

Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on December 29, 2016, 11:54:51 AM
Quote from: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 11:47:23 AM
Yes, I remember reading about that a couple of years ago or so, IIRC.  I think I still have the Millennium manual in PDF.

Yep - I have that one (and many others revolving around the Millennium-universe), too :)

Quote from: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 11:47:23 AM
So you have taken on the task of writing a substitute manager application?
There is a project on Github, is that yours?

There is a good chance, it is - although it's just a collection of manuals and random other documentation (also it's far from being complete - I have still a lot more stuff, that I need to categorize and upload)...

The manager-code I am working on is not yet publicly available on GitHub... So far, the only "home-made" thing I made public is the coinmech-programing-adapter: https://github.com/pc-coholic/millennium-coinmech-programmer
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 12:09:50 PM
Quote from: martin on December 29, 2016, 11:54:51 AM
Yep - I have that one (and many others revolving around the Millennium-universe), too :)
I am sure you do!
I only had a passing interest...

I think others have had similar difficulties with getting code for AT&T payphones, or perhaps it was GTE.  Not surprising I suppose.
But I remember for one of them there is an application floating around somewhere.
We do have some payphone experts on the Forum...

Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: AE_Collector on December 29, 2016, 12:37:04 PM
Unbeldi, you may be thinking of the Protel Payphone "ExpressNet" management program access made available to us here on CRPF by "Payphone Installer"

Here is the specific post:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=7631.msg151379#msg151379

Terry
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: unbeldi on December 29, 2016, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: AE_Collector on December 29, 2016, 12:37:04 PM
Unbeldi, you may be thinking of the Protel Payphone management program (can't recall its proper name at the moment) access made available to us here on CRPF by "Payphone Installer"

Terry

Ah, thanks... that sounds familiar.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Troy K on February 12, 2017, 03:07:15 AM
I actually bought a Millennium just for this, really excited to see the finished product! :)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 21, 2017, 09:32:14 PM
Saw your post is this what you are after? This is a phone I have.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 21, 2017, 09:33:44 PM
I got this when I was still at a Bell Company many years ago.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on May 22, 2017, 04:19:49 AM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 21, 2017, 09:32:14 PM
Saw your post is this what you are after? This is a phone I have.

Yes and no :-)

When I started this thread, I was looking for firmware-dumps of a Millennium with the TTY-keyboard instead of the quickdial-buttons (the left one in this picture (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGblGT5UgAE_fHo.jpg)). Ever since, I got corresponding dumps from some friends in Montreal.

But your phone is actually also something I have been looking for - to be honest, I didn't think I would find anyone that owns an eMillennium... When I talked to Telus and Bell Canada, they all told me that the eMillenniums were only rentals from Quortech and that they took them all back when they were decommissioned. I am genuinely jealous of your phone ;-)

If you want to help me with the development of the backend for the Millenniums, please feel free to make a dump of the EEPROMs in your eMillennium and email them to me. Or let me know, if you ever want to donate (for science ;-)) or sell your eMillennium - I would be the first in line :)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 22, 2017, 09:48:57 AM
I am looking into this further I have some contacts that may assist in getting info on this. Jim
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Troy K on May 23, 2017, 05:23:35 PM
Thought I would post some photos of my phone. It was an ebay find, originally a Qwest phone but I managed to find a Bell Canada bezel for it. Also did up my own instruction card in Adobe indesign. :)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Dominic_ContempraPhones on June 23, 2017, 06:04:59 PM
Quote from: martin on May 22, 2017, 04:19:49 AM
Yes and no :-)

When I started this thread, I was looking for firmware-dumps of a Millennium with the TTY-keyboard instead of the quickdial-buttons (the left one in this picture (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGblGT5UgAE_fHo.jpg)). Ever since, I got corresponding dumps from some friends in Montreal.

But your phone is actually also something I have been looking for - to be honest, I didn't think I would find anyone that owns an eMillennium... When I talked to Telus and Bell Canada, they all told me that the eMillenniums were only rentals from Quortech and that they took them all back when they were decommissioned. I am genuinely jealous of your phone ;-)

If you want to help me with the development of the backend for the Millenniums, please feel free to make a dump of the EEPROMs in your eMillennium and email them to me. Or let me know, if you ever want to donate (for science ;-)) or sell your eMillennium - I would be the first in line :)

Why would you want that?  That's a Quortech retrofit, and an ugly one at that.  NT had NetVenue -- way better.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on June 24, 2017, 12:04:51 PM
Quote from: Dominic_ContempraPhones on June 23, 2017, 06:04:59 PM
Why would you want that?  That's a Quortech retrofit, and an ugly one at that.  NT had NetVenue -- way better.

Oh, I am not limiting myself to the eMillennium... As far as I can tell, the eMillennium and the NetVenue seem to be quite similar - both even feature a normal Millennium-PCB inside, requiring the usual CRASERV-Install-Routine...

So, yeah... If someone offered my an eMillennium or a NetVenue, I'd take either of them. ;-)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Dominic_ContempraPhones on June 24, 2017, 12:45:04 PM
I know the schema ... it uses SQL/MX on NonStop.  There's no need for demo firmware.  Dial-in to MM can be disabled and local rating can be setup.  You know it's Bell 212A and X.25, and I can do a modem connection.

Where I'm stuck is I don't know the install response should be - the protocol that BNR used over 212A.  I have X.25 APIs and I can populate the payphone.

I can also get the DMS people to put the line reversal on -- they don't need to change my LCC.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: PUBCOM on May 15, 2018, 04:47:52 PM
Hello Martin, and Payphone Installer, you both seem very aware!  I have an e Millenium that was used in USA, which I can shoot pix of for you, if it is of interest. This phone came actually from service, with an upper lock and key. Upper has a 56 k modem port, and Ethernet port on the exterior of the keyboard housing.The interior looks somewhat like it has a 2.xx  telephony board, and a modified 2.xx style CPU board, and a daughter board to activate the keyboard interface. I have been watching this thread as you work on a way to activate the Mil phone  from  "out of service" to basics... how is that coming?
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: AE_Collector on May 16, 2018, 01:54:40 AM
Martin hasn't been logged in since a day after his last post here. But, someone is making demo chips for Millenium payphones now...anyone know who that is?

Terry
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on May 16, 2018, 07:21:25 AM
Quote from: PUBCOM on May 15, 2018, 04:47:52 PM
I have been watching this thread as you work on a way to activate the Mil phone  from  "out of service" to basics... how is that coming?

Well... Unfortunately I haven't been progressing on this project as much as I wanted to... Lesson to be learned here is probably to never announce "will be ready for testing" if you're not 100% sure you can keep the deadline ;-)

I made some progress on the configuration-GUI, as it now features all the necessary configuration items. But they are not very well explained - so some cleanup might be in order. The other, bigger missing chunk is to merge the data from the GUI with the modem-backend.

So stuff is still coming along, but very slowly...

As for your eMillennium: I'd be happy to get a few pictures of the phone, go ahead and take them :-) If you also have a chance, I'd be happy to take a dump of the EEPROMs in there. I don't know how different the firmware for the eMillenniums is - but my guess is that it very similar when it comes to the provisioning process.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 16, 2018, 07:34:36 AM
Quote from: AE_Collector on May 16, 2018, 01:54:40 AM
Martin hasn't been logged in since a day after his last post here. But, someone is making demo chips for Millenium payphones now...anyone know who that is?

Terry

I have a copy of the demo firmware running on my Millennium. :)
I also have the programmer and eeproms.

But there are also others out there with the very same thing.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: PUBCOM on May 16, 2018, 11:04:52 AM
Hello Duffy'
I have heard of this demo firmware in older posts. I am not familiar with its content, and what it can do? PubCom
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 16, 2018, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: PUBCOM on May 16, 2018, 11:04:52 AM
Hello Duffy'
I have heard of this demo firmware in older posts. I am not familiar with its content, and what it can do? PubCom

Make it work like a normal payphone. You have to use a card or coins to make a call.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Sigmaz on May 16, 2018, 04:11:43 PM
Hey Duffy. Is it set to a flat rate across the board for all calls or does it randomize or something because there's no way it could have a real band/rate setup without phoning home or being geo-aware.

I made that sound way to complex..

How much to make a call?
Lol
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: AE_Collector on May 16, 2018, 04:48:08 PM
After deciding to NOT bother getting a Millenium for my collection while I was still working I am starting to think I may have made a mistake! And if our company hadn't been so hell bent to contract everything out over the last ten years I might have still known a person or two in the payphone department!

Terry
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: PUBCOM on May 16, 2018, 05:29:56 PM
D. Duffy, The Pictures are great. I like the Duffy's Place and Duffy Tel on your display. On Mil display in demo mode, can other or alternate info be input, and do the feature buttons work?... for example like speed dial, or direct access? Just making calls of any kind is a big Plus, over "out of service"
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: HarrySmith on May 16, 2018, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: AE_Collector on May 16, 2018, 04:48:08 PM
After deciding to NOT bother getting a Millenium for my collection while I was still working I am starting to think I may have made a mistake! And if our company hadn’t been so hell bent to contract everything out over the last ten years I might have still known a person or two in the payphone department!

Terry

Agreed. I have always said "No way", I do not want to get into a computerized payphone! After seeing the pics and reading what it can do I am rethinking also.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 16, 2018, 05:51:29 PM
There is an Millennium on eBay for sale.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Payphone-Northern-Telecom-Millennium-USA-Canada-Original-No-Locks-Vault-Door/112993267674 (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Payphone-Northern-Telecom-Millennium-USA-Canada-Original-No-Locks-Vault-Door/112993267674)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: HarrySmith on May 16, 2018, 06:00:59 PM
Maybe for Terry. Shipping from Canada to Florida is a bit high. How do we know if it will work? Is it complete? What is the difference between Millenium & Centurion?
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 16, 2018, 06:05:24 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on May 16, 2018, 06:00:59 PM
Maybe for Terry. Shipping from Canada to Florida is a bit high. How do we know if it will work? Is it complete? What is the difference between Millenium & Centurion?

That Millennium is in Maumee, Ohio, United States.

Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: HarrySmith on May 16, 2018, 08:21:57 PM
Quote from: Duffy on May 16, 2018, 06:05:24 PM
That Millennium is in Maumee, Ohio, United States.



Sorry, you are right. I don't know what I was reading that made me think Canada.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Sigmaz on May 16, 2018, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: Duffy on May 16, 2018, 05:51:29 PM
There is an Millennium on eBay for sale.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Payphone-Northern-Telecom-Millennium-USA-Canada-Original-No-Locks-Vault-Door/112993267674 (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Payphone-Northern-Telecom-Millennium-USA-Canada-Original-No-Locks-Vault-Door/112993267674)

That one was posted by my request.
The seller has the two Ohio state phones for sale and I asked if he had a non branded specimen.
He told me he'd put one up.... there it is.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 16, 2018, 10:05:55 PM
I would like to see a video of the phone collecting a coin on a completed coin and returning a coin on a incomplete call. Does,anybody out there have the phone doing this in any version? Demo,or otherwise?
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Sigmaz on May 16, 2018, 10:10:56 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 16, 2018, 10:05:55 PM
I would like to see a video of the phone collecting a coin on a completed coin and returning a coin on a incomplete call. Does,anybody out there have the phone doing this in any version? Demo,or otherwise?

I'd like to see that too. I know that in the wild they need to communicate with the MM tandem.

But do they handle coin independently or do they require a coin line?

With their own wall wart I guess they could technically handle it internally.

That would be neat to discover.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 17, 2018, 06:40:23 AM
There are videos on YouTube.

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=y1n9WuGTNuqXjwSzwoyYDg&q=millennium+payphone+videos&oq=millennium+payphone+videos&gs_l=psy-ab.3...7865.23600.0.29437.26.21.0.5.5.0.157.2759.1j20.21.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.25.2866...0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.0.ZWFwOno9xgY (https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=y1n9WuGTNuqXjwSzwoyYDg&q=millennium+payphone+videos&oq=millennium+payphone+videos&gs_l=psy-ab.3...7865.23600.0.29437.26.21.0.5.5.0.157.2759.1j20.21.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.25.2866...0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.0.ZWFwOno9xgY)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 07:34:43 AM
So I watched all the videos on YouTube including the one in demo. I did not see a completed call on any of them. The one that is supposed to have a demo chip did not complete a call. All numbers dialed resulted in a Central Office message. Nothing that I could see completed. One did collect a coin on a central office message. I suspect that was default. During many of the attempted calls I heard repeated SIC tones in the background which indicates that any digits that are being sent to the CO (central office) are wrong and do not exist with in that calling area. This would result from no rate phone in the phone. Meaning since the phone was a hybrid it required a CO rate file. After listening I think that it is possible that the phone called for the rating. It may be that the phone is dialing a number to acquie its rates that has now been disconnected. You would not hear this number but you could obtain it by placing a digit grabber on the phone. If you watch the video of the demo phone you keep seeing it saying calling telinet. This is very interesting as I think this may be the platform that the phone called to obtain its information to function. I stick with my original prediction. You will never get this phone to work properly because of the complex interaction with the central office or some other unknown data base where it called for rates on every call. I know that Cincinnati Bell choose to never use these phones to to the recurring cost of accessing that data base.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 17, 2018, 08:49:50 AM
My Millennium is hooked up to my land line and is running the demo firmware, in order to make a call you must first dial the number and then it will ask for a card or to deposit coins. When you use the coins or card it completes the call, when the phone hung up it returns the coins to the change return chute. At no time are the coins sent to the vault. It does work fine to make out going calls.

That is how it works on mine. I don't know if it can be changed in the firmware or not to make the coins go to the vault.

I would make you a video, but I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry calling me after seeing my two telephone numbers. lol

Calls can be made to this phone as well. It doesn't ring, but it shows you in the display that there is an in coming call.


Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
That is interesting and answers quite a few questions. The reason it is returning the money on a completed call is because it have no answer detect built into the demo. So it defaults to return the money when the phone is hung up. As fat as completion of a card call the demo most only look for a card swipe nothing more. That all it could be because there is no card validation company associated with the phone and separate from that no way to bill the card because you have no arrangement with a billing company. So we are now narrowing down what the demo version does. It simply allows the phone to take the coin hold it in escrow and return it when the handset is hung up. Nothing more it has no smart features at all. If you don't deposit a coin and dial a number what happens?
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: HarrySmith on May 17, 2018, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: Duffy on May 17, 2018, 08:49:50 AM

I would make you a video, but I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry calling me after seeing my two telephone numbers. lol



I would not be calling, unless I needed something!
Harry
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: rdelius on May 17, 2018, 05:51:37 PM
Coin relays are polarty sensitive .You could put a hidden switch or wire backwards
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 17, 2018, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
As far as completion of a card call the demo most only look for a card swipe nothing more. That all it could be because there is no card validation company associated with the phone and separate from that no way to bill the card because you have no arrangement with a billing company.

Not all cards work, it must be a older credit card or a Bell calling card.

Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
So we are now narrowing down what the demo version does. It simply allows the phone to take the coin hold it in escrow and return it when the handset is hung up. Nothing more it has no smart features at all.

Depending on which version of phone you have, you can access programing mode and make it use some of it's features.

Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
If you don't deposit a coin and dial a number what happens?

Nothing, it asks for payment. You must deposit coins or use the card to makes outside calls.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 17, 2018, 06:30:02 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on May 17, 2018, 04:50:09 PM
I would not be calling, unless I needed something!
Harry

Harry, you can call me anytime! :)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Jim Stettler on May 17, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
As fat as completion of a card call the demo most only look for a card swipe nothing more.
I would try swiping cards from your wallet. I think it would work. Start with your "grocery store" card.
JMO,
Jim S.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 17, 2018, 07:43:01 PM
Quote from: Jim S. on May 17, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
I would try swiping cards from your wallet. I think it would work. Start with your "grocery store" card.
JMO,
Jim S.

Nope, done that. It has to be an older credit card or Bell calling card due to the rates set at the time (year) the firmware was made.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
Its not reading the card only the stripe. There are no smarts to determine anything. Its not connected to anything. Its a car with no engine.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 17, 2018, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
Its not reading the card only the stripe. There are no smarts to determine anything. Its not connected to anything. Its a car with no engine.

I fully understand what you are saying Millennium Manager (engine) is not running this phone. You are correct the stripe only, the older credit cards don't have chips. I'm not an engineer and have no idea why it works the way it does. It does dial out and complete calls with coins or card. It will not complete unless you do. This was a phone taken out of service, I changed out the eprom and put in the demo eprom. The eprom was sent to me already programed. I have a programmer and used a hex editor to change it to display my name. There are other changes that can be made, but like I said I'm not an engineer or a coder, I only know enough to screw it up.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: AE_Collector on May 18, 2018, 12:29:23 AM
While it would be nice if the demo chip could do more such as collect or refund for demonstration purposes, what it does now is pretty good. Not for an ability to actually put a Millenium into any sort of real service but to put one into service within a collection. And the ability to edit the screen is a big plus as well. Someone might be able to add a call timer that would change the escrow from the default of "return" to "collect" if a call remains up for more than say 30 or 40 seconds. This would be an additional improvement for demo purposes but not for real use.

Terry
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on May 18, 2018, 06:18:15 AM
Quote from: PUBCOM on May 16, 2018, 05:29:56 PM
D. Duffy, The Pictures are great. I like the Duffy's Place and Duffy Tel on your display. On Mil display in demo mode, can other or alternate info be input, and do the feature buttons work?... for example like speed dial, or direct access? Just making calls of any kind is a big Plus, over "out of service"

Demo-Code usually does provide a few presets for the Quick-Access buttons - but those settings are baked into the demo-code EEPROM and not user-changeable via the service-menu.
The defaults for MTR1.x demo-code ROMs are (first line/second line/dialed number)
1. Courtesy Desk / 555-1234 / 555-1234
2. TAXI / 555-2222 / 555-2222
3. Hotel / Hotel Shuttles / 555-6282
4. Security / 555-9999 / 555-9999
5. Emergency / DO NOT HANG UP / 911
6. AIRPORT / Arrivals&Departures / 555-1212
7. Tourist Info / / 1-800-555-4636
8. Weather / 555-5678 / 555-5678
9. Restaurants / Reservations / 555-2002
10. WALK SAFE / 555-9012 / 555-9012

There is also a different set of Quick-Dial presets for phones running demo-code for US-West

MTR 2.x features the following defaults:
1. Airport / Security / 416-279-5551
2. Airport / Information / 416-279-5552
3. Tourist  / Information / 416-279-5553
4. Baggage / Claim / 416-279-5554
5. Airport / Express Bus / 416-301-4655
6. Down-town / Express Bus / 416-409-2311
7. Metro / Taxi / 416-777-2222
8. Blue Top / Taxi / 416-775-3322
9. Prestige / Limousine / 416-345-1232
10. Nationwide / Car Rental / 416-223-6664

Quote from: Payphone installer on May 16, 2018, 10:05:55 PM
I would like to see a video of the phone collecting a coin on a completed coin and returning a coin on a incomplete call. Does,anybody out there have the phone doing this in any version? Demo,or otherwise?

That's actually a good question... I *think*, I remember having completed a call once, where the phone ate the coins after completing the call. But as far as I remember, that was on a MTR2.x-phone hooked up to a line with proper Answer supervision through polarity reversal. I'll try to recreate this and have some video made of it, if it works.

Regarding card-calls:
There is a few demo-code phones out there, that indeed accept any magnetic stripe card. The reason however why most phones only work with older credit cards is a limitation in the configuration-table for magstripe cards.
The table contains - depending on MTR and the compile-options - up to 32 entries for magnetic cards, identified by the first six digits of a card-brand (For example: the phone identifies all cards as VISA-cards, if their first six digits are 400000 and higher, but lower than 499999). In addition to that, for each card there is a definition of allowed Service Codes - and that's where the problem lies.

By default, the demo-code ROMs only allow the service-codes 101, 102, 110, 111 and 501. Well... Unless it's Amex or Discovery - for some reason, they set all the allowed service-codes tuples to 000 - so allow pretty much anything ;-)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 18, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
Quote from: martin on May 18, 2018, 06:18:15 AM
Demo-Code usually does provide a few presets for the Quick-Access buttons - but those settings are baked into the demo-code EEPROM and not user-changeable via the service-menu.
The defaults for MTR1.x demo-code ROMs are (first line/second line/dialed number)
1. Courtesy Desk / 555-1234 / 555-1234
2. TAXI / 555-2222 / 555-2222
3. Hotel / Hotel Shuttles / 555-6282
4. Security / 555-9999 / 555-9999
5. Emergency / DO NOT HANG UP / 911
6. AIRPORT / Arrivals&Departures / 555-1212
7. Tourist Info / / 1-800-555-4636
8. Weather / 555-5678 / 555-5678
9. Restaurants / Reservations / 555-2002
10. WALK SAFE / 555-9012 / 555-9012

But it can be changed on the eeprom via programmer, Correct? Not that I need to change them, mine doesn't have the Quick-Access buttons.

Quote from: martin on May 18, 2018, 06:18:15 AM

There is also a different set of Quick-Dial presets for phones running demo-code for US-West

MTR 2.x features the following defaults:
1. Airport / Security / 416-279-5551
2. Airport / Information / 416-279-5552
3. Tourist  / Information / 416-279-5553
4. Baggage / Claim / 416-279-5554
5. Airport / Express Bus / 416-301-4655
6. Down-town / Express Bus / 416-409-2311
7. Metro / Taxi / 416-777-2222
8. Blue Top / Taxi / 416-775-3322
9. Prestige / Limousine / 416-345-1232
10. Nationwide / Car Rental / 416-223-6664

I noticed that the US-West have the Toronto area code 416. Looks to be set up for the Toronto Airport.

Quote from: martin on May 18, 2018, 06:18:15 AM

That's actually a good question... I *think*, I remember having completed a call once, where the phone ate the coins after completing the call. But as far as I remember, that was on a MTR2.x-phone hooked up to a line with proper Answer supervision through polarity reversal. I'll try to recreate this and have some video made of it, if it works.

On mine when the call is completed it returns the coins. No coins have gone into the vault at anytime on mine.


Quote from: martin on May 18, 2018, 06:18:15 AM

Regarding card-calls:
There is a few demo-code phones out there, that indeed accept any magnetic stripe card. The reason however why most phones only work with older credit cards is a limitation in the configuration-table for magstripe cards.
The table contains - depending on MTR and the compile-options - up to 32 entries for magnetic cards, identified by the first six digits of a card-brand (For example: the phone identifies all cards as VISA-cards, if their first six digits are 400000 and higher, but lower than 499999). In addition to that, for each card there is a definition of allowed Service Codes - and that's where the problem lies.

That is how mine works. I have a Visa and MasterCard from the 1990's that work. I also a couple of original Bell calling cards that work as well. Mine will not just accept any card.

Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: AE_Collector on May 18, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
So the MTR 1.x software uses the 10 extra quick access buttons and button 5 dials 911? Seems like a BAD idea.

Terry
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on May 18, 2018, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 16, 2018, 10:05:55 PM
I would like to see a video of the phone collecting a coin on a completed coin and returning a coin on a incomplete call. Does,anybody out there have the phone doing this in any version? Demo,or otherwise?

Well, took me some time as my Patton mATA seem all to be dying one by one - but here it is: MTR2.x, running unmodified demo-code on a line with Answer Supervision through polarity reversal provided via the mentioned Patton mATA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7-0hCf0RR0

Please excuse my bad camera-work.

Quote from: Duffy on May 18, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
But it can be changed on the eeprom via programmer, Correct? Not that I need to change them, mine doesn't have the Quick-Access buttons.
You can change anything using an EEPROM-programmer - sure :)
If your phone does not have the physical quickdial-buttons and neither the TTY-keyboard, you can try to unscrew the blanking-plate - it's just held in place by one or two screws. Underneath, you'll find the 10 quickdial membrane-buttons. Of course: Not as pretty as the actual quickdial buttons - but when it comes just to pushing them, they work just fine ;-) Same applies when your phone only has the 5-button quickdial: all the membrane-keys underneath are still there :-)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 18, 2018, 02:33:04 PM

Quote from: martin on May 18, 2018, 01:51:35 PM

You can change anything using an EEPROM-programmer - sure :)

I have the programmer and program for writing the file to the eeprom and that is how mine was done.

I also have spare eeproms to play with. :)

Quote from: martin on May 18, 2018, 01:51:35 PM
If your phone does not have the physical quickdial-buttons and neither the TTY-keyboard, you can try to unscrew the blanking-plate - it's just held in place by one or two screws. Underneath, you'll find the 10 quickdial membrane-buttons. Of course: Not as pretty as the actual quickdial buttons - but when it comes just to pushing them, they work just fine ;-) Same applies when your phone only has the 5-button quickdial: all the membrane-keys underneath are still there :-)

Good information, I didn't know that.

Martin are you in Ontario?


Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: martin on May 18, 2018, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: Duffy on May 18, 2018, 02:33:04 PM
Martin are you in Ontario?

Not even close :-P

I am based in Munich, Germany. But my obsession with the Millennium started when I stayed in Montréal from a year as an exchange student. And ever since, I return to Montréal once a year for a few weeks ;-)
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Sigmaz on May 18, 2018, 04:01:14 PM
Has anyone read the track information on a workin card with another reader? maybe could be used to make other demo cards.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 18, 2018, 06:35:23 PM
It is not reading the info just sees the stripe. Probably reading it is magnetic that's all. Real dumb.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 18, 2018, 06:41:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmaz on May 18, 2018, 04:01:14 PM
Has anyone read the track information on a workin card with another reader? maybe could be used to make other demo cards.

The demo firmware is on the eeprom not the card and the demo firmware has already been copied and out there.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Sigmaz on May 22, 2018, 08:03:08 PM
Oh I know that Duff
I was just curious what the demo card magstripe says.
I'm willing to bet it's coded with a specific string that the firmware detects as a valid demo card.
Wether that's a generic CC header or a specific sequence I was just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: MADhouseTelephone on May 22, 2018, 09:53:06 PM
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 16, 2018, 10:05:55 PM
I would like to see a video of the phone collecting a coin on a completed coin and returning a coin on a incomplete call. Does,anybody out there have the phone doing this in any version? Demo,or otherwise?
Search "MADhouse Telephone" on Facebook. I did a demo video of my Millenium and posted it there.  ADavid
https://www.facebook.com/snakegot.rattled/videos/553744018327544/UzpfSTE1MjA1MDExNjgyNjU3MDQ6MTk0NDczMzUwOTE3NTc5OQ/
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: MADhouseTelephone on May 22, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
Quote from: Duffy on May 17, 2018, 08:34:19 PM
I fully understand what you are saying Millennium Manager (engine) is not running this phone.... I changed out the eprom and put in the demo eprom. The eprom was sent to me already programed. I have a programmer and used a hex editor to change it to display my name. There are other changes that can be made, but like I said I'm not an engineer or a coder, I only know enough to screw it up.
I am the same. I was sent a demo chip with some minor changes so it would display my Phone Co. name. It will collect coins  on completed calls through my AE SxS switch, which provides polarity reversal call supervision. It will read an older CC, but does not call to verify the card, even though the display says it is doing so. It charges a quarter for local calls and a dime for long distance, and counts a nickel as 6 cents!  ADavid
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: ..... on May 22, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
Quote from: MADhouseTelephone on May 22, 2018, 09:53:06 PM
Search "MADhouse Telephone" on Facebook. I did a demo video of my Millenium and posted it there.  ADavid
https://www.facebook.com/snakegot.rattled/videos/553744018327544/UzpfSTE1MjA1MDExNjgyNjU3MDQ6MTk0NDczMzUwOTE3NTc5OQ/

Thanks Allen,

I should have posted that video but it wasn't mine to share. It shows exactly what mine does. We'll have to have a chat again when you aren't on the road.   DKD
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Payphone installer on May 23, 2018, 10:21:05 PM
The best you can ever hope or is no more then Stans controller, the phone with the EPROM is a dumb set with limited ability that is what it was built as. It is dependent on office supervision and a offsite data base.The fact that no one is discussing answer detect,or rate and options shows  the lack of understanding on the function of a true smart  set. I am not even sure that the EPROM supports reverse battery as that would require decision making. I believe at best it has a timer on off hook time and a collects when you exceed the timer run out. Understanding tha a true smart set like a Protel is literally a central office in a phone. A. Mini CO with a station and a trunk,it can be programmed for office supervision on a coin,or office supervision on reverse battery non coin line or answer detect which is listening for speech or SIC tones. It also monitors Wink to avoid chain dialing. A smart set can detect Glare if properly programmed and deal with custom calling features that are not supposed to be on a  COCOT line. Any talk of somebody creating a,program that can deal with all of this shows,complete lack of understanding of the telephone network. It would take a room full of engineers years to accomplish this task. I you really want a millennium to work figure out how to put Protel guts in it. That would be a much easier task.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Key2871 on May 23, 2018, 10:44:24 PM
I wonder if a protel board can be retro fit into his millennium set to give things like timing of calls coin insert for dialed call complete, and operate the coin relay for collect or return for incomplete calls. I've seen protel boards for fairly cheap, working. Programming wouldn't be too difficult.
Title: Re: Millennium with Keyboard
Post by: Troy K on May 24, 2018, 01:44:06 AM
Quote from: MADhouseTelephone on May 22, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
I am the same. I was sent a demo chip with some minor changes so it would display my Phone Co. name. It will collect coins  on completed calls through my AE SxS switch, which provides polarity reversal call supervision. It will read an older CC, but does not call to verify the card, even though the display says it is doing so. It charges a quarter for local calls and a dime for long distance, and counts a nickel as 6 cents!  ADavid

I have a Millennium too that I'd love to use, who did you get in touch with? I wonder if he'd send me a firmware file :P