Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques => Bakelite Repair & Polishing => Topic started by: Greg G. on September 21, 2012, 01:59:56 PM

Title: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Greg G. on September 21, 2012, 01:59:56 PM
I was reading a discussion just last night on my smart phone that included a link to a UK site that had some great tips for restoring and polishing bakelite.  I tried a search for key words and can't seem to find it.  I'm not sure if the discussion started out about bakelite or sort of drifted to it.  It's NOT in the Bakelite repair section, I looked.  There was a post in that discussion where someone mentioned a couple of automotive products that had very common names, so when I try to do a key word search, it turns up way too many or nothing at all. 

The products were called "black bright" or "back to black" or something like that, I can't remember exactly.  I also want the link to that UK site.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: TelePlay on September 22, 2012, 04:30:29 PM
I seem to remember something called Greygate Polishing Compound No 5 that was made for the GPO to polish Bakelite. It's talked about at this forum link.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5383.15

It's readily available for a reasonable price, if it works, but it's sold in the UK and seems it can't be shipped to the US.

Is this what you were reading?

It's doesn't seem to be a restoration product if the original cast finish is gone but a polish to clean, polish and shine the original outer layer.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: AE_Collector on September 22, 2012, 08:42:34 PM
Briny: did you make sure that you were searching from the home page? A search when youare in one of the discussion boards will only search on that board.

Any idea why the polish #5 can't be shipped to USA?

Terry
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: TelePlay on September 23, 2012, 12:19:25 AM
Quote from: AE_collector on September 22, 2012, 08:42:34 PM
Any idea why the polish #5 can't be shipped to USA?

Don't know. None of the eBay UK sellers will ship it anywhere outside the UK. I couldn't even leave a message with the eBay sellers under the listed product - a strange thing in itself.

And, I could not place an order with the company directly using a US address. I could order the stuff but when at the checkout page, it would not let me proceed to the shipment page after completing the order page with a US mailing address.

I sent the company an email today asking if they ship to the US and if not, why not. Will post their reply when received.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Greg G. on September 23, 2012, 01:26:29 AM
Quote from: TelePlay on September 22, 2012, 04:30:29 PM
I seem to remember something called Greygate Polishing Compound No 5 that was made for the GPO to polish Bakelite. It's talked about at this forum link.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5383.15

It's readily available for a reasonable price, if it works, but it's sold in the UK and seems it can't be shipped to the US.

Is this what you were reading?

It's doesn't seem to be a restoration product if the original cast finish is gone but a polish to clean, polish and shine the original outer layer.

No, the thread I was reading had recent posts from a few days ago.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: TelePlay on September 24, 2012, 09:47:14 PM
Did you see this?

http://www.britishtelephones.com/bakelit1.htm
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: TelePlay on September 24, 2012, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: AE_collector on September 22, 2012, 08:42:34 PMAny idea why the polish #5 can't be shipped to USA?

Here's what they said. Can anyone translate this for me?  :D

"Dear John,

We do not send to the US as we have store there. We are unable to send this product to the US as this is Flammable and will cost over $600.00 in shipping.

Shaun Flinders, Conservation Resources (UK) Ltd."

I replied asking for a link to their store in the US. I think that's what he said.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: AE_Collector on September 24, 2012, 11:42:15 PM
Well as we all know, A "Dear John" letter never contains good news...does it?

But yes, sounds as though they sent some over as flamable as it is and now have it available in the USA......somewhere. One would have thought though that they would have supplied this additional info in their original reply.

Terry

Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Greg G. on September 25, 2012, 02:05:13 AM
Quote from: TelePlay on September 24, 2012, 09:47:14 PM
Did you see this?

http://www.britishtelephones.com/bakelit1.htm


Yep, that's it, thanks!
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: TelePlay on September 25, 2012, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on September 24, 2012, 11:18:34 PM"We do not send to the US as we have store there."

They do, and they have a lot of stuff that looks interesting for phone restoration. But, no online ordering. Have to print out a form and mail it in.

Greygate Polishing Compound #5 here:http://tinyurl.com/8s8s9h3

Their main webpage here:http://tinyurl.com/28tb6c

Also found quite a few sites related to old radio restoration that discuss ways of treating bakelite. That's how I came across that British Telephone link, by luck you could say, Briny.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Nick in Manitou on January 16, 2013, 08:43:48 PM
If anyone tries the Greygate Polishing Compound, please post your impressions of the product.

There are so many different ways to go, any input would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: HarrySmith on January 16, 2013, 09:39:05 PM
A quick search on eBay turns up a seller with Greygate Polish.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321055558749  EDIT:  Link found to be dead on 12-31-13

I did not check Amazon but I would imagine one could find it there also.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: david@london on December 30, 2013, 02:05:38 PM
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on January 16, 2013, 08:43:48 PM
If anyone tries the Greygate Polishing Compound, please post your impressions of the product.
Thanks!

......got some of this today to use on a gpo bakelite phone. 1st impressions - very good polish. it has a slightly chalky consistency at first which goes away as you rub it in.
i had already cleaned the bakelite shell with warmish or hot water + mild shampoo, then novus 2 + alot of elbow grease.
the cloth with the greygate on it turned slightly brown after a minute or so of rubbing, so it seems to be getting off another layer of ingrained dirt. i think it contains some wax too, to shine.
definitely a cleaner/polish though, not a cure for discolouration like a back to black-type product.
i believe it was used by the gpo.

edit - this is the greygate no. 5 bakelite polish in a tube, not the plastic polish in a small bottle

Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: unbeldi on December 30, 2013, 05:05:47 PM
Quote from: david@london on December 30, 2013, 02:05:38 PM

the cloth with the greygate on it immediately turned brown, so it seems to be getting off another layer of ingrained dirt. i think it contains some wax too, to shine.
definitely a cleaner/polish though, not a cure for discolouration like a back to black-type product.
i believe it was used by the gpo.

edit - this is the greygate no. 5 bakelite polish in a tube, not the plastic polish in a small bottle
Well, the brown stuff that came off is most likely a phenol alcohol that forms when Bakelite is exposed to water. Washing it in hot water may have contributed to that, Bakelite sometimes turns rather dull after water washing. But there are so many varieties of phenol resin which makes a difference.
Once you got your surfaces cleaned and polished, never wash it with water later.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: HarrySmith on December 30, 2013, 06:50:31 PM
I had exactly what Unbeldi is talking about happen to me. I did my usual overnight soak in hot water & Oxiclean with a very nasty 302, when I pulled it out the next morning it was dull and covered in silver specks. A lot of polishing brought it back. I had the same thing with several old Black 500's only they added a slimy surface to the specks. Again a lot of polishing to bring back any luster, I had to use rubbing alcohol to remove the slime! I also had the specks and a greyish tint at the bottom of the bucket when I emptied it.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: unbeldi on December 30, 2013, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on December 30, 2013, 06:50:31 PM
I had exactly what Unbeldi is talking about happen to me. I did my usual overnight soak in hot water & Oxiclean with a very nasty 302, when I pulled it out the next morning it was dull and covered in silver specks. A lot of polishing brought it back. I had the same thing with several old Black 500's only they added a slimy surface to the specks. Again a lot of polishing to bring back any luster, I had to use rubbing alcohol to remove the slime! I also had the specks and a greyish tint at the bottom of the bucket when I emptied it.
Hmm, a 302 made from Bakelite?

But indeed I have seen something similar when water washing black plastic housings from a 302. It seemed to have developed a greyish coating.  But I am sure the chemistry of that is different. It doesn't produce the brown substance that comes off again with polishing.
I was thinking that the 302 plastic effect actually is more of an adhesion of water, rather than chemical reaction, a very thin film of water sticking to the surface very tightly, producing an optical effect of greying.  It seemed to get better just with thorough drying, IIRC. 
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Phonesrfun on December 30, 2013, 10:31:39 PM
I absolutely ruined a Bakelite F1 handset once by running It through the dishwasher.  It really came out very dull, almost pitted.  Live and learn.  Since then I have stayed away from any washing of Bakelite at all. 

When polishing any Bakelite, the polishing rag always has a brown spot, as if I had been polishing with brown shoe polish.  I think it is as unbeldi says and is the resin compound coming off and not so much dirt.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Bill on December 31, 2013, 11:41:39 AM
In the antique radio community, the difference between bakelite and plastic is important but often misunderstood. To identify bakelite, as opposed to plastic, the common test is to put a bit of Scrubbing Bubbles on a Q-tip, and rub it gently along the surface to be tested (in a non-visible area if possible). If the Q-tip turns brown, it is bakelite. In other words, something in the Scrubbing Bubbles cleanser dissolves and removes something from the phenol coating on the bakelite - and you don't want to do that very much! In other words, pulling up a brown color on a polishing cloth is probably not a good thing.

Bill
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: unbeldi on December 31, 2013, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: Bill on December 31, 2013, 11:41:39 AM
In the antique radio community, the difference between bakelite and plastic is important but often misunderstood. To identify bakelite, as opposed to plastic, the common test is to put a bit of Scrubbing Bubbles on a Q-tip, and rub it gently along the surface to be tested (in a non-visible area if possible). If the Q-tip turns brown, it is bakelite. In other words, something in the Scrubbing Bubbles cleanser dissolves and removes something from the phenol coating on the bakelite - and you don't want to do that very much! In other words, pulling up a brown color on a polishing cloth is probably not a good thing.

Bill
Well, Bakelite is certainly a plastic. No other way to put it. Bakelite was really a trade name, the first, for a particular kind of phenol formaldehyde polymer. The two major groups of plastics are thermosetting plastics and thermoplastic types, a classification made based on their behavior under reheating.
Perhaps the radio community has similar misunderstandings as the telephone collecting community about the types of plastics they deal with.

The cleanser helps remove the thin layer of phenol alcohol that often forms on the surface of Bakelite. I like to use metal polishers. But on large outside surfaces that are still shiny, it may be best not to use any water-based product. Often, especially on dull handsets on can see some brown deposit on the surface, small speckles often than come off with polishing. I think on handset, this may come from the constant contact with skin moisture when holding the handset.

I am beginning to believe that the best treatment is a very hard wax someone gave me, it has accomplished miraculous results with a very ugly looking old-style Leich handset recently among others, that I thought was just too far gone, but now makes a very nice appearance on my Beehive. Kiwi shoe polish finished the job!
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: david@london on December 31, 2013, 08:24:07 PM
...the gpo bakelite phone i've been using the greygate no.5 on was in pretty good condition, with a smooth, unworn surface.
the greygate has given it a deep, piano-black shine after an hour's polishing - using sparing amounts on a soft cotton cloth. a pea-sized amount is enough for one side of the housing.
i would think that greygate no.5 is a renovating paste.......not a polish to be used often, and perhaps not suitable for worn bakelite.
i've heard that hard pure beeswax is a good way to maintain the shined surface.
Title: Re: Arghh! Trying to find a recent discussion on bakelite restoration.
Post by: Mr. Bones on January 01, 2014, 01:13:32 AM
Just a thought here, and since I so rarely have them, thought I might share...

     Has any body tried distilled water? Brita pitcher water? Commercially available drinking water? to soak any 302, etc. bodies? (Or bakelite handsets?) They all certainly seem more chemically neutral. I can't abide the tap water here, but a Brita makes it great for coffee, cooking, etc. Tremendous difference in taste and smell, and I'm not even fussy, or finicky about things.


     I was just curious if the lack of chlorine, flouride, lime, calcium, etc. might be less degrading to the phone shells, or the bakelite of an F1 handset, etc.
     I have a couple of 302 shells with broken horns, etc., that I might sacrifice to this cause, if it has not already been attempted/documented, though I hate to... gonna repair them, at present.

Best regards, and a Happy New Year to all of you, and your loved ones, etc.