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Lightning Strikes

Started by Babybearjs, February 24, 2012, 06:03:46 AM

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Babybearjs

I was lying in bed trying to get some rest when it hit me! all 20K volts! now, I have a W.E. 212 "Bar Phone" with a subset on my back patio, of course its under a covered patio... now, I like in Idaho where from time to time we get thunderstorms.... the phone being made of metal, along with the mounting bracket..... it got me thinking.... should the telephone frame be grounded????  the thought of having to use the phone in a 911 emergency got me thinking.... if someone where outside and got hit by lightning, should I use a METAL phone to call for help???  what do you all think? this really is a interesting question!   john
John

twocvbloke

I think the act of grounding such things can actually cause the lightning to be attracted to such devices, so, personally, I wouldn't, I'd prefer it if the lightning hit something else that had surge and strike protection built in elsewhere (such as a mobile phone tower, or a church spire) than be attracted to something out the back of the house that could end up with the house being damaged... :o

DavePEI

Quote from: Babybearjs on February 24, 2012, 06:03:46 AM
I was lying in bed trying to get some rest when it hit me! all 20K volts! now, I have a W.E. 212 "Bar Phone" with a subset on my back patio, of course its under a covered patio... now, I like in Idaho where from time to time we get thunderstorms.... the phone being made of metal, along with the mounting bracket..... it got me thinking.... should the telephone frame be grounded????  the thought of having to use the phone in a 911 emergency got me thinking.... if someone where outside and got hit by lightning, should I use a METAL phone to call for help???  what do you all think? this really is a interesting question!   john
I smell seared meat! My thought is no matter how much metal or plastic if lightening strikes, it won't think twice about jumping across an inch or two from plastic to the connections inside. To dissipate a large strike, it would take a very large strap to ground it!

Doesn't everyone have a BBQ on their patio :-\

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
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DavePEI

Quote from: twocvbloke on February 24, 2012, 06:09:10 AM
I think the act of grounding such things can actually cause the lightning to be attracted to such devices, so, personally, I wouldn't, I'd prefer it if the lightning hit something else that had surge and strike protection built in elsewhere (such as a mobile phone tower, or a church spire) than be attracted to something out the back of the house that could end up with the house being damaged... :o

You are correct. Here on the Island, there was a lightening rod company which preyed on people's fears about lightening. At one point just about every building on this end of the Island. Over the years, people began realizing that their chances of being struck were greater if they had rods - now, you will see very few rods left.

I used to draw some comfort here when I had my tall jam radio towers away from the house, in that if lightening struck, they would be hit before the house, and just made sure they, and the wires from them were well fitted with arestors and good ground systems.

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

dsk

#4
I'm not sure if we shall talk about luck, or maybe even in some religious terms.

The pictures talk for themselves:

https://picasaweb.google.com/d.s.karlsen/Noatun_Brann_2008?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIb-n6m34uDscA&feat=directlink

This is the 2. time the lightning hits near our cabin.

The powersupply is quite equal to US 3 phase 208V system, but no common Neutral.

The local grounding is not good, and this is built after older standards with no grounded outlets.
The cables are metal sheeted (sheet is grounded).

At the point where the fire started, it is no natural ground at all, the wooden construction is put on concrete bars on the mountain. (No soil)

This time we had no telephones, the firs time we had, because I had to live there for a period, and cellphones were not common.

At that time the telephone (a rotary from 1934 just lost the moving part of the ringer, and could just be put together.  The telephone fuses and protection was evaporated.  When just twisting the wires together, it worked.  :)   

dsk


twocvbloke

You know, that reminded me of when I got to repair a computer that had suffered a near-phoneline strike (back when the good ol' 56k modem was still common, I say near-phoneline cos if it was a direct strike there would have been a lot more damage), the computer was completely trashed, nothing worked so it was a total loss, but it was the way the lightning jumped from the modem, through a USB2.0 card (and I mean through!!!) to the case, leaving a lot of scorch marks and soot from where some components detonated or caught fire briefly, it's incredible that there wasn't any more damage to the customer's home!!! :o

I wanted to buy the case (about the only salvageable thing left) off the customer, just cos it was cool to have a case that had been through that, but my employer had to send it off to the customer's insurance co. after our 2nd opinion assessment for the ins. co. to arrange replacement sadly, so I never saw it again... :(

Wasn't one of the computers we built though, it was a Time brand computer (cheap & cheerful computers that just LOVED to fail!!), ours were tough and durable, not that I'm biassed or anything.... ;D

jsowers

This isn't a phone or a computer--far from it--but it is a lightning victim. It's an old store building that was over 100 years old, across the road from my mom's and two houses down the road from me. One Sunday morning, out of the blue, lightning hit the front of the building.

I heard it hit--I was in my kitchen at the time--but didn't realize it started a fire until the fire trucks arrived. It had lightning rods front and back (see the last picture) and they did no good. It had no utilities connected to it and hadn't been used as a store in 75 years and was used for storage.

The fire dept. arrived and couldn't put out the blaze. They pretty much let it burn. The second picture is after the fire was put out. They tore the building down eventually. It's amazing how something can stand for over 100 years like that and then get struck by lightning and go up in flames.

The oak trees that used to be near it all got hit by lightning over the years and died, so it had little protection. The property is very high in elevation. On a clear day you can see the knob of Pilot Mountain from the upstairs windows of the house.
Jonathan

dpaynter1066

We were always taught : Dont talk on the telephone or take a bath during a lightning storm.

Babybearjs

Right U are! thanks for the pictures! Interesting subject....I'm glad you all replied.  it just goes to show, you can't be too careful... I always knew appliances had to be grounded.... can we include old metal phone to that too?  for all those living in the midwest where lightning is ever so present, be safe this summer!
John

TelePlay

Quote from: twocvbloke on February 24, 2012, 06:09:10 AM
I think the act of grounding such things can actually cause the lightning to be attracted to such devices, so, personally, I wouldn't, I'd prefer it if the lightning hit something else that had surge and strike protection built in elsewhere (such as a mobile phone tower, or a church spire) than be attracted to something out the back of the house that could end up with the house being damaged... :o

Absolutely right. Lightning loves a high object with a easy path to ground.

I worked for a company that built and managed cell towers. They put a lightning rod on top of the tower connected by wire directly to a very expensive copper wire grounding loop buried around and below the base of the tower. If I remember correctly, that part of the tower construction cost about $20,000 all by itself. If hit by lightning, the charge goes directly to the ground loop and is harmlessly dissipated and does not affect any of the wireless providers antennas on the tower or their computer based ground equipment at the base of the tower.

A branch strike from the top rod to an antenna is possible but the wireless providers also protect their equipment with an identical grounding loop so such a side strike would only damage the single antenna and do no damage to their expensive base equipment.

We actually had one farmer ask that the 150 foot tower be built between his house and barn which were about 75 feet apart. A few years later he said his barn, equipped with lightning rods, had not take one hit since the tower was built. Before that, almost every storm hit his barn (he was on a high area of ground).

The best shield from lightning is a device which will attract and dissipate the lightning but be isolated from the item or devices that are to be protected.

dpaynter1066

The trouble is that there is both an art and a science to installing a lightning rod system and few traveling lightning rod salesmen know how to correctly install the ground wire much less how many rods (more than you think) are actually needed to do the job.   Lightning will jump off the ground wire if it bends in too sharp a radus or at an angle and run through the wooden house rather than the obvious twisty path thru the copper wire.  The sharp peak of a gable will draw the lightning away from the rod so each gable has to be given a rod and the wire system needs multiple runs down to different proper earth grounds on opposite sides of the building rather than all tied to a single ground rod.

A lightning bolt crosses a huge distance to reach earth,  a short little rod is not much different than the side of the building as far as that many megawatts is concerned.

I should guess that that old building had not had any mantenance on the lightning system and it had rotted away to uselessness.

sebbel

I think it safer to make sure your closest neighbour has lightning rods. Or is a cellphone tower.
Seb.

dsk

Lightning protection could be easy, how much it works??

Here are 3 pictures from  "old" Norwegian phones.

The 2 first: magnetos from 1905
The last from a 1967 modell (made 1967-1983)

dsk


WesternElectricBen