"Impulse Buy" 302 arrived today (Dead on Arrival)

[metdial]

Well, the phone arrived this morning.  Externally it looked pretty good; the usual paint chips & a few scrapes.  The handset is in decent condition, the caps are not pitted(they're stuck though, so I can't get a look at the dates inside).  The dial rotates & returns ok, but will definitely need to be cleaned & lubricated.  The numbers are in good shape except for the # 1 which is quite worn.

Now the bad news: 

I hooked it up to test it and its as dead as a rock, no dial tone.  I was afraid of this because the phone was described as "untested" (this from a seller who seems to sell a lot of phones).  I'm afraid its gonna be something expensive that needs to be replaced or overhauled (way beyond my amateur abilities).  The wiring looks like it is correct, and several forum members confirmed that (at least from the few pictures that they could see).

I should probably post this in the "Trouble Shooting" category as well so that more folks will read this and hopefully shed some light on the problem(s). 

Thanks for your help,
Tom

[metdial]

Here are some photos of the wiring:

This is my first 302, so I'm not sure if the wiring is correct or not.  Hopefully these images will enable those more knowledgeable to identify any wrong connections.

Thanks for the help.   

[Dennis Markham]

Check the black wires going to the dial.  I still cannot tell which terminal the black wires are on.  There should be two black wires.  One coming from the condenser and one coming from the handset cord.  Those should be connected together on the BK terminal on the dial.  Are they right?

[Dennis Markham]

Tom, I just e-mailed you a document that I put together for where to connect each wire on a 302 with a 101A induction coil and a 2 conductor ringer.  It should help to compare where things go.  The dial terminals are marked properly so it doesn't matter which dial you have.  They should be marked like "W" and "BK" etc.  Just follow the wiring diagram and see if that help.

[Sargeguy]

Bingster's diagram of how to hook up a 302 with a #6 dial was extremely helpful when I had got my first 302 way back in November:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=275.0

[benhutcherson]

I agree that the dial wiring doesn't look right. I believe that it might make a difference if you make the following change

[metdial]

IT'S ALIVE, IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

It now has a pulse (I mean dial tone) and it pulses when it's dialed!

The wiring on the dial was indeed the problem.  Dennis' suspicion about the black wires being on the wrong terminal was correct.  They were connected to the Y terminal instead of BK.  I started from there and ended up changing several of the wires.  It was pretty difficult to distinguish red/blue from brown/purple etc., because several of the wires had aged to a somewhat uniform brown color over time.  Used a very bright flashlight to see the subtle differences in color, and eventually got them right.

Thank you Dennis for emailing me the very helpful wiring schematics.  And thanks to everyone who contributed their opinions & suggestions.

The only other issue I have right now has to do with the ringer.  When I received a call, the ringer rang so faintly as to almost not be audible.  I assume this has something to do with the bias spring or maybe the ringer wasn't getting enough voltage to ring properly.  I noticed that there are 3 positions or grooves into which the bias spring can be seated.  The spring is sitting in the right hand position or groove at this time.  Should I move it to the middle or to the left hand groove?

Thanks again everyone for all of the help. 

Tom

[Dan]

I have to chime in here too. I got a 1938 Metal 302 today at a flea market  and it dials and performs flawlessly( 5H dial with a paper? Cover with the numbers on it) .No ringing however.  I copied the 1947 bakelite 302 I have and now it rings, but Exactly like metdials--that is faintly, not strong. The 1947 one is loud as hell.

The red wire from the ringer is on L1, and the grey wire from the ringer is on the k on the little board . (next to the ground ). I have tried the tension spring in all three positions. The ringer coils date 2-51 so they have been replaced.

I am very picture ignorant far as posting pictures . Thanks

[bingster]

With the ringer's red wire on L2, move the ringer's black wire to L1.  It won't have much choice but to ring then.

[Dan]

Hi, thanks for the quick reply. It slightly vibrates with your consideration. The strongest thing closest to a ring is the black ringer wire on L2 and the red on K. I am stumped!

[Sargeguy]

You may want to try rotating the gongs so the are closer together.  The holes in 302 gongs are off-set (not centered) to accommodate this.

[benhutcherson]

Whoops, it looks like I simply uploaded the same image earlier, rather than the one on which I'd drawn arrows.

Oh well, moot point since you got it working.

I agree on checking the position of the gongs. You want the left one positioned such that the clapper lightly rests against it naturally.

To adjust the other one, I generally push the wavy copper that's at the back of the ringer forward, an action which mimics the normal motion of magnets on the clapper. Then, rotate the right bell until it just contacts the clapper.

Then, test the ringing by moving the aforementioned copper piece back and forth a few times.

[Dan]

Yes! We have chimes! Thank you guys. Now this begs the question, Are some 302's louder than others? My 500's all sound the same, while my other 302 is about as twice as loud as this new one.

[BDM]

Yes! We have chimes! Thank you guys. Now this begs the question, Are some 302's louder than others? My 500's all sound the same, while my other 302 is about as twice as loud as this new one.

Depends on how the bells themselves are positioned.

[Dennis Markham]

Dan, I think that it also depends on how the ringer aged over time.  I have had some stronger than others.  As far as tweaking those gongs, it's a matter of trial and error.  Move them until you get just the right sound.  I like to hang on to one side while it's ringing (to stifle it) so I can hear how the other is ringing...then do the opposite.  I have found that when the bias tension spring is in the center groove it gives the best results...sort of a neutral position and then a gong adjustment can be made.  However there are exceptions to the rule and sometimes the springs work better in a different position.  I also think that different phone companies may put out different voltages and could effect ringers differently.  I am in an area that was once Michigan Bell territory but is now AT&T.  Just a few miles north my brother has Verizon (which was once General Telephone's) area.  He barely gets enough juice to ring one model 500.  He is out in the sticks and I'm in the City, which may be a difference.

As far as the holes on the gongs, I read somewhere, probably a BSP (Bell System Practices) that one gong has off-set hole as stated in the previous post.  On the model 500 (C2A, C3A, C4A) ringers the odd numbered gong is always the gong that goes on the side that is non-adjustable.  That has an "eccentric" circle or hole which is slightly off-set.  By turning that gong it can move toward or away from the clapper while at rest.  The even numbered gong would then go on the adjustable side of the ringer.  Until I learned this I always put the 54A gong on the left side and the 55A gong on the right side simply because of the numbers and reading from left to right.  In fact the opposite is true.  I don't know if this odd/even thing applies to 302 type ringers as there is no adjustment on the early ringers except for the gong rotation and bias spring movement.

I think the distance the gong is from the clapper during rest is relative to the strength of the ringer and the amount of juice going through the line.  So each should be adjusted (If desired) to one's specific location.  Probably in the same place I read to NEVER adjust the clapper by bending the thin wire that it is attached to.  The proper adjustment is with the bias spring and gongs.

My 2 cents worth.