302 Ringer Delay Issue

[easytiger]

I'm looking for ideas on a chronic 302 ringing problem.  When a call comes in, it will often not begin ringing until the 2nd (or sometimes longer) ring.  It's the only ringing phone on the 2nd floor here at "the mansion", and I can hear the lower floor phone ringing before this one kicks in.  Often, it doesn't kick in at all.

It seems to occur most often when no calls have come for a longer period – up to a day or more.  Once it does ring, and calls continue more frequently, it kicks in just fine – no delay, etc.  The ring is always good and strong – not sluggish at all.  If it doesn't kick in, sometimes just picking it up and giving it a gentle shake gets it going – other times it doesn't.

When it has stopped or acted up, I've tried all the usual things I can think of or have read about on the forum – cleaning, adjusting the bias spring, checking the connections, etc.  Afterward, it always seems resolved for awhile, then eventually starts up again.

I've tried other phones connected to the block in its location - other 302's, a 5304C, AE40, and no issues at all with those.  

Could it be the condenser?  Coils?  Is there some loss (electrically) that could be experienced with a period of inactivity but that wouldn't manifest with more regular ringing?

No other issues with the phone – dial, volume, etc. all work famously.

Any ideas?  Thanks!

[Kenny C]

mine here is always the first phone to ring

[Jester]

The short answer is yes, it could be a weak condenser.  Before considering how to change that, it wouldn't hurt to check everything one more time.  Is your ringer a B1A or something similar?  These ringers were intended for single line use, but I have seen frequency ringers in what look like 302's.  They technically aren't 302's, but only because the ringer & handset are different.  The ringer frame should be stamped B?A(?=1,2, etc.) and should work well with your phone.  Does your phone have the 195A condenser, and are the yellow & white leads connected between Y/L2 & K?   Are there more than five phones connected to your line when you have the problem?  Are you effectively removing one phone from the line when you test it on this phone's jack, or is the total number of phones the same?  If your answers to the above are yes, yes, yes & no, I would proceed with finding a replacement condenser.  

[Dennis Markham]

I hate to always suggest the following but it often is the cause for poor ringing..........check the bias tension spring of the ringer.  That's the small springy wire that sits between the gongs.  If it's not in the center position, try moving it there.  Or try moving it to the various notches and then ring the phone to see if it improves the ringing condition you describe.

[easytiger]

Thanks, Jester and Dennis (and I'm glad to hear your 302 is good and healthy, Kenny  )

The ringer is a B1A, the condenser is a 195A, the yellow & white leads are between Y/L2 & K,  there's a total of 4 phones connected - and still only 4 (or less) when testing the jack.  In fact, suspecting that effect, I've taken it down to only two connected (just so I could still hear one ringing if/when this one failed!)  Whew!  I think that's yes, yes, yes & no, right?

Dennis, thanks for the suggestion regarding the bias tension spring, as well.  That is one of the possible resolutions I've tried.  I thought moving it to the notch with the most generous tension had finally resolved it, but, unfortunately, it eventually reoccurred.

Testing is lengthy (and suspenseful) because after each session of adjustment, connection checking and cleaning, etc., it works great...and then days later, or after a little dry spell...just when you're thinking it's over - surprise!  It's back.

So, it sounds like swapping the condenser might be a good next step?   I'm still learning about the electrical aspects -it makes sense, then, that a symptom of a "weak" condenser would be inconsistent behavior during periods of no calls vs. regular calls?  Can/does the condenser "store up" electrical capability, so to speak - potentially becoming "lazy" if it has no current through it for a time?

[Kenny C]

 Yep mine is great other than a little static sometimes.

[rdelius]

You might inspect the gaps between the  ringer coils and the pole pieces. There might be some iron filings . Sometimes reversing the ringer in the circuit will  help
Robby

[Phonesrfun]

Easy:

The answer to your last question is absolutely, yes.  The condenser does store an electrical charge by its nature and purpose.  They can get a little iffy after, what, maybe 60 or 70 years!

Replacement condensers are available out there, and if nothing else, you can go to an electronics supply house and get a .5mF 250 volt capacitor (Capacitor is the more modern word for condenser)

Radio Shack does not sell a .5 mF, but they do have a 1.0 mF capacitor Their part number 272-1055 that sells for $1.59 each.  Two 1.0mF wired in series (end to end) will give half the capacitance, so two 1.0's will give you a .5.

At least if you want to test for the capacitor before going out and buying an authentic one, the Radio Shack version is a cheap way to test.

[easytiger]

Thanks, Robby and Bill, for the additional suggestions and information.

I'll definitely check for iron filings, and I think I have a couple of hard-luck 302 donor phone candidates somewhere that I'll try to dig up for a condenser swap to see if that will exorcise my ghost.  I'll save the non-standard capacitor option for Plan B (or is it maybe C or D at this point?).

In my electrically-limited view, I've always just thought of the condenser as a "traffic-cop" of sorts - sending the right current where it needed to go - not thinking that it might also have "a little something" up it's sleeve.  That would help explain the behavior, somewhat.

My expectations probably are a little high given the age of the equipment, but in my own defense, it's not my fault!

I'm appreciative of the help and information everyone has offered since my time on the forum.  Many Thanks.

[Phonesrfun]

My expectations probably are a little high given the age of the equipment, but in my own defense, it's not my fault!

Normally, a 302 generally works well, even for their advanced age!  But, like anything else man-made, they occasionally go South.  But the quote at the top of this web page by Dan/Panther says it all....."The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them."