News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

WIRING A WESTERN ELECTRIC 52AB CANDLESTICK

Started by gands-antiques, September 09, 2014, 02:32:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

unbeldi

Well, yes. Of course.

You told us about your subset, asked questions and got answers about wiring it,
all of what we discussed depended on connecting it to your subset in a very specific way to make it work,
and now you tell us that you're not using it at all and got the phone connected somehow to the line directly.

Doesn't that defy any logic?

How do you connect THREE mounting cord conductors to the TWO wires of a telephone line?

poplar1

Connecting green and red from the phone directly to the line, you have only the receiver connected when going off hook. When you turn the dial, the BB and W contact springs open up the receiver, and since there is no transmitter or subset, it's the same as hanging up. You will hear a new dial tone when the dial returns to rest. So at least you know the receiver is good and that the BB-W contacts work.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

I had tried to connect the 684A I planned to use but it wouldn't ring when i connected it to my test set.  So, I have another 684A and it does ring when I connect it to my test set so I will be wiring the phone to it tonight.

Thanks,
Gary

gands-antiques

I wired the phone and 684A as instructed and now I have no dial tone. I have included a picture of subset.


Thanks,
Gary

poplar1

Is the green wire from the phone connected to BK in the subset?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

Yes, the green wire from the desk stand cord is connected to BK on the subset.


Changes from standard 684A wiring:
1. Move  red line wire from L1 to C. (Leave green line wire on L2-Y.)
2. Move red ringer wire to C
3. Move black capacitor wire from BK to L1

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

#36
that's not all correct.  It leaves the BK terminal with only one connection as can be seen from your picture.

Instead of 3) (move black capacitor wire from BK to L1) it should be:

3) Move red capacitor wire from C to L1.

Follow the diagram exactly and don't automatically assume that your subset was wired correctly to begin with.

gands-antiques

#37
I tried to make the changes you and poplar gave me but it's really hard to tell what the colors are of the capacitor wires. They all look the same even after I cleaned them. 

I don't have a diagram for a 684A so I haven't had anything to compare my subset to.

Will you please tell me where to find the diagram?

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

#38
Follow the colored diagram that has everything on it that you need. The subset is part of it.
Colors indeed may be impossible to tell apart.
Best to forget at this point what a 'standard' subset looks like, and wire according to the diagram.

gands-antiques

I didn't even realize the color coded diagram included the 684A subset but now that I look at it again, unfortunately I don't understand the subset or capacitor wiring. I am still learning and have been pretty frustrated with this one and I really appreciate your patience.

I can usually troubleshoot 102s, 202s and 302s but this one and the 653 that you helped me so much with have been very difficult.

Thanks a lot,
Gary

poplar1

If you have an extra sidetone subset lying around (534A, 334A, 295A, or 584A), that is known working, then you could concentrate just on making sure your 20ALs, 102s, 50ALs, 51ALs or 52ABs are wired correctly. Once you have the phone working--dialing out, disconnecting, talking and receiving---while connected to that subset, then you can move on to wiring it to the subset you plan to sell with the phone.

If you don't have a sidetone subset, then perhaps you have a 302 you can part out. A 302 base, like your 684A, is anti-sidetone, and would have to be rewired for your 51AL, but it may be easier to distinguish the colors in a 302 base.

In other words, it's difficult to troubleshoot when there are so many variables. Having a known good subset and/or  302 base would make a good addition to your work bench.

Sorry about the error about the capacitor leads in my previous post.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

#41
I just checked my subsets and I don't have any of the ones listed by Poplar (534A, 334A, 295A, or 584A) .....

Subsets I have:
3- 684A
1-584DE
1-584DE X
1-687A
3-685A
1-584DF


I will pursue the 302 base method when I get home tonight.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

Quote from: gands-antiques on September 12, 2014, 09:21:39 AM
I just checked my subsets and I don't have any of the ones listed by Poplar (534A, 334A, 295A, or 584A) .....

Subsets I have:
3- 684A
1-584DE
1-584DE X
1-687A
3-685A
1-584DF


I will pursue the 302 base method when I get home tonight.

Thanks,
Gary

NO.

It's just a can of worms when you're not sure what you are doing.
Forget about anything else.
Keep it simple.
Stay the course.

You have a subset that you are beginning to know and anything else is only a distraction.
Clearly the subset is wired incorrectly.
Make it work.
Trace EVERY LINE on the diagram and match it with EVERY WIRE in the telephone and the subset.
Count the number of wires each terminal should have.  They MUST match.
If you follow this precisely your subset and telephone will work, unless there is a broken part, but your subset looks very nice and broken parts are very rare.

You can experiment with other options when you got something to work and know more.

gands-antiques

Thanks unbeldi,

I will put the 302 base away and it was ringing on incoming calls but the candlesick wouldn't dial out.

Since I am having trouble interpreting the color coded diagram and another 51AL desk stand diagram I got from the TCI library, would it be possible to provide me with simple wire to terminal information for all of the wires on the candlestick and the subset like Bill Geurts did for me when I first started wiring 202s to subsets a couple of years ago?

Example below...

Red desk set wire to the R terminal on the network
Green desk set wire to the GN terminal on the network
Black desk set wire to the B terminal on the network
White desk set wire to the RR terminal on the network
Yellow desk set wire to L1 on the 685A terminal strip (Not L1 on the network)

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

#44
Why not attempt to do this for yourself for educational progress?

Rather than deal with both the diagram and the telephone at the same time, just sit down with the diagram for an hour and write down all connections indicated in the way that you prefer.

Here is another diagram, the same diagram, only cleaned up a little more with more annotations. I verified that all terminal names/letters are on there.

Somehow we have to get a method for your learning established that will help you in the future.  I believe in helping others to help themselves.
I am sure there will be help available later to verify the wiring instructions that you create on your own.