Western Electric 5302

[adlambert11]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new here.  I've always loved rotary phones, I remember the olive green one my mother had in the kitchen when I was a kid.  I still have that phone today, a W-E 500 hanging model and it works just fine.  I recently bought a W-E 5302 desk phone at a tag sale.  I converted the cord so I could use it on the modern system like I did on my 500.  But it has some issues.  It will ring when called but when you pick up the hand set it keeps ringing.  I cleaned the electrical prongs in the hang-up button to no avail.  Also it won't call out.  When you pick up the hand set there's no dial tone only when you turn the rotary it makes a dial tone for a brief second.  If you dial the number on another phone and then pick up the hand set it does work, however the you can barley be heard on the other end of the line.  Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated!

[poplar1]

If you could post pictures, it would help.

Do you get dial tone if you remove the transmitter and short out the two prongs with a screwdriver?

If not, possibly an open black wire in the handset cord if you have an F-1 handset with a 3-conductor handset cord. Possibly an open black or red wire in the hs cord if you have a G-1 handset with 4-conductor cord. Black handset wire should connect to BK on the dial. Red handset wire should connect to R on the part marked 101A (induction coil).

If yes, another possibility is that the prongs are not bent up far enough to make good contact with the transmitter. Or, it's unlikely but possible that you have a bad transmitter.

You could also temporarily move the yellow-brown wire from  Y on the dial to BK on the dial to bypass the dial pulsing contacts and see if you get dial tone. If so, the dial contacts may be messed up.

[adlambert11]

Thanks, I tried that and it didn't work. I have an F1 hand set with 3 wires. I've Attatched a picture

[poplar1]

Wiring appears to be correct. If you don't get a dial tone when shorting the two prongs inside the transmitter cavity, then I believe the black handset wire is defective. The only other test I know to do is to temporarily move the white receiver wire to L1, the black transmitter wire to L2, and the red handset wire not connected. Keep the receiver away from your ear until you're done wiring. If you don't have dial tone now, try white receiver wire to L1 and red handset wire to L2 and the black wire disconnected.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Basically, the 5302 or 302 handset circuit is that the receiver (white wire) goes through the dial contacts (W and BB), then the hook switch (Double blue and green wires) then to GN on the induction coil. The other receiver wire (red) goes to R on the induction coil. This red wire also goes to the transmitter. The other transmitter wire (black) goes through the dial contacts (BK and Y), through the hook switch (yellow-brown and yellow wires) to L2. (Also, the capacitor red and black wires connect to C on the induction coil and BK on the dial.)

When the phone is working properly, unscrewing the transmitter cap and removing the transmitter--or, disconnecting the black handset wire from BK on the dial but leaving the black condenser wire---will give you a "monitor" circuit, where you don't have dial tone unless someone else picks up the handset on his phone. The other person will be able to dial out and talk and listen and you can hear all of this but cannot be heard. If a call comes in, you can hear the ringback loudly in the receiver of your phone. If you turn the dial slightly, you will get momentary dial tone because you have shorted L1 and L2. This is the way the hand test sets ("buttinskis") used by telephone techs work. If the black handset wire is bad, then you will also have these symptoms.

[HarrySmith]

Did you try bypassing the dial? It sounds like a dial issue since the rest of the connections appear OK.

[Phonesrfun]

The symptoms point to the following possibilities:

1.  Missing or damaged F1 transmitter element inside the F1 handset
2.  F1 Transmitter element not making contact with the spring contacts inside the F1 handset
3.  Bad black wire in the handset cord

It has to be one of those three items.  I was able to duplicate your issue by taking the transmitter out of a 5302 phone.

Here's what's going on.

The transmitter is in the primary circuit and needs to be there to cause current to flow when going off hook.  If there is no transmitter, no current, and no dial tone, and no answer.  Same thing with a bad transmitter, or one that doesn't make contact, or if the black wire is open.

When you dial the phone on a 302 or 5302, the dial shunt contacts shunt the entire telephone so that there is more current in the dial pulses.  Only because the transmitter is not in the circuit, there is no pulsing, but the dial shunt does take the phone "off Hook" during operation.  You cannot hear the dial tone because the receiver is turned off during dialing to keep you from hearing the nasty sounding pops from dialing.  When the dial comes back to normal, it turns the receiver back on, and releases the shunt, which hangs up the phone.  You still hear the dial tone briefly as there is a delay between the dial shunt releasing and the central office recognizing it and turning off the dial tone.

Technical description aside, take a look at the transmitter and its contact and see if you can see anything.

[zaphod01]

Let me know if you need an F1 element with which to test. I'll be more than happy to send you one.

I have what my wife refers to as 'that big box of crap' (my spares). There's a few tested F1 transmitter elements in there somewhere.

I'm a big 5302 fan. I have 2 plus a much rarer 5304 party line version. None worked when I got them. All work now. The people on this forum provided the advise to get them all working!

Robert

[Jim Stettler]

Let me know if you need an F1 element with which to test. I'll be more than happy to send you one.

I have what my wife refers to as 'that big box of crap' (my spares).
Robert

"CRAP" = "Communication Related Apparatus & Parts".
I have lots of Telephone "CRAP" and some Telegraph "CRAP".
Some forum members collect TVs and radios so they probably have some Broadcasting "CRAP" kicking around their shop.

JMO,
Jim