Dear CRPF Forum:
I have received a WE 202 D8 Handset mount... It has 2 sets of hookswitch contacts, a 6U dial, and F1W handset that I would like to use with either a 685 subset, or a converted 500 or 2500 base as the subset.
I need, Please with finding out the proper inside the desk stand wiring for the dial and hookswitch contacts, and the subset cable connections to the network on the subset, or converted 500/2500 base.
One set of contacts are marked GN, W, and BK, and Y. (I couldn't get a clear picture of the Y terminal screw, but it is present inside the set.
The other two are marked RH, and R.
I have attached photos to this post. I would gladly thank in advance for any help or advice that can be offered.
Thank You,
RotoTech99
Here is the page for WE wiring diagrams. Several there for your phone:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=75.0
Dear Harry:
I looked at the thread you mentioned, but I don't see anything there that I think pertains to my 202D8; I had to go back and edit my post some after the original post after seeing that I had missed a thing or two. So you could have just "caught the post" before I finally completed editing it the last time.
What I'm looking for specifically is how to wire the dial inside the desk stand and a 4 wire subset cable inside the desk stand, and then the appropriate connections at the 685, or converted 500/2500 base.
Also, I'm not familiar with the RH terminal inside my 202.
I'm needing, please clarification and a little explanation so I can get a better idea of what you mean.
Thank you,
RotoTech99
The very first post on that page is wiring a 685B subset to a 202. What else do you need?
Quote from: RotoTech99 on March 15, 2020, 09:23:15 PM
What I'm looking for specifically is how to wire the dial inside the desk stand and a 4 wire subset cable inside the desk stand, and then the appropriate connections at the 685, or converted 500/2500 base.
Isn't a 685 sbuiset an anti-side tone subset requiring a five conduidtor mounting cord? r/g/b/y/yy
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12931.0;attach=110313;image)
Dear Western Bell:
Thank you for the reply. I noted in my original post using a converted 500 or 2500 base; that was in case I could not get a 685A to use with my 202D8. Right now, I cannot find any 685A's so that is why I'm also asking for the wiring of a converted 500 or 2500 base to the subset mounting cable.
I've seen diagrams on how to do that on CRPF, and I've seen a 581A subset component base used in the same way.
I also need to know if I should disregard the R and RH terminals when wiring everything.
Lastly please confirm for sure if I will need either a 5 wire subset cable, or a 4 wire one.
Please keep in mind to include wiring info. for if a 500 or 2500 base is used for a subset, please.
.
I dunno othher than the 685 hass the same networks as a 500 so they mounting would be the saeme with either. Just sayying i thnk anti side tone subseits need fifth condutctor as showen in that drawing. Smarteer people tan me on hear who knowing how to help you. i caent hep you.
This is actually a 215 hand telephone set, not a 202. The only difference in a D1 handset mounting and a D8 is the additional R/RH contact springs. These springs were originally used to disconnect the red conductor from the subset (R) from the red conductor from the handset (RH) except when the phone was in use.
The reason for that was to allow either of two hand telephone sets to be used with one 684A or 634A subset. Without the R/RH being open (no continuity) on the on-hook set, the transmitters of both sets would be connected in parallel whenever either phone was in use.
So two or more 102s (B1 or D1) could be connected to a single sidetone subset (534A, 584A, for example) without any problem. But with an anti-sidetone subset, two B1s or D1s could not be connected to the same anti-sidetone subset.
The solution was to install a separate anti-sidetone subset for each 202 -- or to use 215s with one AST subset. Apparently, the first solution was more common.
Quote from: poplar1 on March 16, 2020, 05:44:09 AM
The reason for that was to allow either of two hand telephone sets to be used with one 684A or 634A subset. Without the R/RH being open (no continuity) on the on-hook set, the transmitters of both sets would be connected in parallel whenever either phone was in use.
I would love to know where this information comes from.
The only D8s I have come across have, in addition the the extra hook switch contact, have a hook latch. As I understand it, the purpose of the additional contact was to delay connection of the transmitter & dial circuit to the line until after the hook latch was operated.
I have not found much in the way of documentation for the D8/215 except for the cording BSP.
Thanks
Jack
Dear Forum:
Thank you, that explains a lot.. I would've never guessed my set is a 215.
I would like to wire it as a 202; it would seem that I'm only going to need the R terminal for connecting the red handset lead, and the other red wire that would go there, but what about that extra set of contacts? Is there a way to remove those, and keep just the R terminal for connecting the two red leads normally associated with the R terminal?
Also, if I connected the two red leads associated with the R terminal, would those two extra contacts cause any issues if left in place?
I think if I could do that I'd be able to wire my desk stand as I'd like to... I could use some additional advice please and will gladly thank everyone for the advice and help.
Thanks,
RotoTech99
Quote from: RotoTech99 on March 16, 2020, 07:27:03 AM
I would like to wire it as a 202; it would seem that I'm only going to need the R terminal for connecting the red handset lead, and the other red wire that would go there, but what about that extra set of contacts? Is there a way to remove those, and keep just the R terminal for connecting the two red leads normally associated with the R terminal?
Also, if I connected the two red leads associated with the R terminal, would those two extra contacts cause any issues if left in place?
To use the D8 as a D1, use one terminal of the additional contact set to connect R from subset the handset. There is no need to remove the contact and I would advise you not to.
Does your set have the hook latch (the trigger under the cradle) or has it been removed?
Jack
Dear Jack:
Hi, I did not see the hooklatch trigger you mentioned, just the terminals and contacts I noted in my earlier posts.
RotoTech99
Quote from: RotoTech99 on March 16, 2020, 07:45:15 AM
Dear Jack:
Hi, I did not see the hooklatch trigger you mentioned, just the terminals and contacts I noted in my earlier posts.
RotoTech99
Perhaps it was removed. Here is one:
Jack
Quote from: Jack Ryan on March 16, 2020, 06:52:20 AM
I would love to know where this information comes from.
The only D8s I have come across have, in addition the the extra hook switch contact, have a hook latch. As I understand it, the purpose of the additional contact was to delay connection of the transmitter & dial circuit to the line until after the hook latch was operated.
I have not found much in the way of documentation for the D8/215 except for the cording BSP.
Thanks
Jack
I will try to find the documentation. I first heard about these sets from my collector friend Gerald in Montreal in the 1970s. I will try to find some documentation. In addition to the 215 (D8), there are 1151R (151R) desk stands and 213? (G3 hand set mounting) hanging type hand telephone sets which also have an extra normally open contact. (Otherwise, both transmitters would be bridged to R and BK in the subset at all times.)
I am assuming that your hand tel. set with R/RH contacts opens the black transmitter lead rather than the red common handset lead. If so, it seems odd that they would choose"R" and "RH" to designate a black handset wire + a jumper.
Diagram for "151R Desk Stand Rewired" is shown in TCI library with note: "Use when more than one desk stand is connected to a single anti-sidetone subsciber set."
Still looking for 215 and 213.
Searching for "hand telephone sets" in TCI library, I found BSP Section C63.323 from N. Y. Telco. Manh.
FIG. 6 -- 215 Type Hand Telephone Set for Use where
2 or More Stations are Connected to a
Common Anti-Sidetone Subscriber Set
C63.323 Addendum A from the same company shows the 213:
This addendum...covers the connections for 213 Type Hand Telephone Sets, rewired for use where more than one
telephone set is to be connected to a single anti-sidetone subscriber set.
FIG. 7 --213 Type Hand Telephone Set Rewired
Quote from: Jack Ryan on March 16, 2020, 06:52:20 AM
I have not found much in the way of documentation for the D8/215 except for the cording BSP.
I put mounting codes in a couple of BSP descriptions so they are searchable. Try this:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=d8 (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=d8)
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=215+tel (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=215+tel)
Quote from: paul-f on March 16, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
I put mounting codes in a couple of BSP descriptions so they are searchable. Try this:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=d8 (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=d8)
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=215+tel (https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=215+tel)
Thanks Paul. All but one of those I have seen - the one I had not is C63.353 which has a circuit for the Tele 215. This answers the question I posed earlier but introduces a couple more.
1. What is the telephone code for the D8 with the hook latch and its subset?
2. Why is a hook latch added to a D8 and the mounting is still coded D8?
Perhaps because I look for the latch but before now, all the D8s I had come across had hook latches.
Jack
Quote from: Jack Ryan on March 16, 2020, 09:00:40 PM
Thanks Paul. All but one of those I have seen - the one I had not is C63.353 which has a circuit for the Tele 215. This answers the question I posed earlier but introduces a couple more.
1. What is the telephone code for the D8 with the hook latch and its subset?
2. Why is a hook latch added to a D8 and the mounting is still coded D8?
Perhaps because I look for the latch but before now, all the D8s I had come across had hook latches.
Jack
I haven't studied this in detail, but recall a discussion about Vern's set.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=23479.0 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=23479.0)
It's possible that the part stamped D8-A9532 was treated as an option that could be added in the distribution houses as needed (using a standard "kit of parts"). If so, finding it in a catalog or BSP would be a challenge, as they were generally not marketed -- but only supplied when absolutely "needed."
That strategy was used fairly often for features that were ordered fairly infrequently but often enough that a standard modification was helpful. That saved the cost of creating and inventorying a separate mounting code or model number.
Some of my favorite (later) standard sets that included standard modifications were documented in the April 2018
Singing Wires -- a WE 565 keyset and a 558 wall set that were both modified to include speech amplification, as was done in a 532 set. They expected to place enough amplified desk sets to justify creating a separate model number, but the demand for amplified wall and keysets was much lower. There's a small photo of the modified 558 here:
http://www.paul-f.com/we500typ.htm#558 (http://www.paul-f.com/we500typ.htm#558)
With a little thought we can probably come up with many other examples. There are several BSPs that list standard modifications implemented with kits of parts and I have several sets in my "study someday" box that have modification codes stamped on the bottom.
Ah yes, I forgot about the number ink-stamped on the cradle plunger.
On sets the appeared on eBay that was not visible so for a long time, I didn't know it was there.
It must be just pure chance that except for this example, every D8 I saw had a hook latch. As I mentioned before, that might be because my radar picks up the hook latch before the ID.
Thanks again Paul.
Regards
Jack
You're welcome, Jack.
It's still worth retuning the radar for plain (unmodified) D8s to test the theory. We should find more without the latch. More hunting in the BSPs and catalogs won't hurt either.
Quote from: poplar1 on March 16, 2020, 10:00:01 AM
Searching for "hand telephone sets" in TCI library, I found BSP Section C63.323 from N. Y. Telco. Manh.
FIG. 6 -- 215 Type Hand Telephone Set for Use where
2 or More Stations are Connected to a
Common Anti-Sidetone Subscriber Set
C63.323 Addendum A from the same company shows the 213:
This addendum...covers the connections for 213 Type Hand Telephone Sets, rewired for use where more than one
telephone set is to be connected to a single anti-sidetone subscriber set.
FIG. 7 --213 Type Hand Telephone Set Rewired
Thanks for posting this. As noted in another post, there is another use for the D8 for which there is, as yet, no documentation found.
Regards
Jack