Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair => Topic started by: ChristmasGuy on October 20, 2021, 10:00:59 PM

Title: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: ChristmasGuy on October 20, 2021, 10:00:59 PM
What I have attached is a hypothesis, this phone is wired exactly as the "500C and D Telephone Sets Connections".
I have watched a few videos on youtube which entail taking the black wire and moving it over 1 terminal block to the left. That did not work for me and even moving the yellow wire to the middle terminal block made the phone work less. I usally get this stuff but I am at a total loss. It would mean so much if someone could help, any information provided will be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your time reading this and have a wonderful day! ~JMS
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: poplar1 on October 20, 2021, 11:16:48 PM
Move the black ringer wire to L1 (where the green hookswitch wire is in picture).

Connect green line cord wire to L1 and  red line cord to L2  (where the yellow and slate (gray) hookswitch wires and the red ringer wire are).
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: ChristmasGuy on October 20, 2021, 11:32:43 PM
Dear Martin, I tried this with this phone and moving the Black wire to L1 does not make the ringer work, thanks for the input tho
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: RB on October 21, 2021, 01:31:33 AM
You could have a, "Dead Ringer", Hee Hee???
Have you checked the resistance of the coils?
Not sure what they are on that one, but one could be bad???
Or a broken wire???
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: ChristmasGuy on October 21, 2021, 11:43:09 AM
Dear RB,
The resistance across bell ringer wires Black and Red on terminals L1 and L2 read 582 ohms, roughly 600. The slate and red dotted wire do not have any resistance across any of the remaining wire combinations. I am getting high voltage on the line, perhaps the "transformer as I call it" the box with white top with terminal bank may have a bad cap? I know that for the ringer to work it needs to have Alternating Current or something like that
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: poplar1 on October 21, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
You need to measure the resistance of the two coils with all 4 ringer wires disconnected.

Black to Slate = 1000 ohms

Red to Slate-Red = 2650 ohms
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: ChristmasGuy on October 21, 2021, 01:37:30 PM
Dear poplar 1, my resistance for Red to Slate was around 2.8k. I did not get a reading for my black to slate wires. When I was in the testing process, I was putting the red and black wires in parallel with my Touch tone telephone, but me being dumb, I used alligator clips on the contacts of the coil of the 2500 which broke the small delicate wire. Both wires were broken thus breaking the circuit for the coil. I dont think I can resolder one of the wires since it goes up into the middle and the wire is so brittle that it just breaks when I tug lightly to get more slack. Either I have to unwind or get a donor. Great. Wondering if you have any spare 1980s ringer coils
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: HarrySmith on October 21, 2021, 01:53:24 PM
I can supply a ringer if you need it.
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: ChristmasGuy on October 21, 2021, 02:15:26 PM
This is the coil I need
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: Jim Stettler on October 21, 2021, 09:52:32 PM
They say not to dis-assemble a ringer.  it will mess them up.
So, basically , don't replace the coils, replace the ringer.
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: TelePlay on October 21, 2021, 10:12:51 PM
If the “new” working ringer does not work, it could be a bad capacitor inside the network between A and K, where the slate and red/slate wires are connected.

Use a DVM that can measure capacitance between A and K with no wires attached to make sure it is good, about 0.5 uF. They rarely fail but if they do, an external 250 Volt 0.5 uF capacitor can be connected between the red and red/slate wires.

The ringer circuit is pretty simple: green line cord to L1, ringer black to L1, ringer slate to K, 0.5uF capacitor from K to A, ringer red/slate to A, red ringer wire to L2 and red line cord to L2.

Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: Babybearjs on October 21, 2021, 10:36:56 PM
the best thing to do is wire it the way the schematic shows and adjust the bias spring. I've had the same problem and by adjusting the spring fixes the problem. the phone companies now don't send out enough current to drive the original bells... plus, if you have more then 2 phones on the line, the power is greatly diminished. leave it to modern technology...... once electronic ringers came along, the phone lines didn't need as much power....
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on October 22, 2021, 04:37:01 AM
It is OK to replace the coil, just don't take the frame apart.
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: TelePlay on October 22, 2021, 06:16:18 AM
It is OK to replace the coil, just don't take the frame apart.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=845.0

Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: MMikeJBenN27 on October 22, 2021, 07:17:58 AM
You can not remove that magnet, or else it will weaken, but I have replaced coils many times with no trouble at all.

Mike
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: TelePlay on October 22, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
IIRC, the square metal bar that holds the coil in place is attached to the magnetized frame and acts as a magnet keeper.

Yes, coils can be changed but quickly, or the keeper bar screwed back in place without the coil, to keep the frame magnetized.

The longer the keeper bar is left out of the frame, the weaker the magnetic field becomes.

As stated in the above linked topic, ringers are magnetized using a strong flux field AFTER the ringer is assembled, after the coil with its square center bar is screwed into place. Must be why they do that for without the coil keeper bar, the ferrous frame alone won’t hold its magnetic field.
Title: Re: Need Some Help on a Western Electric 500, ringer will not work.
Post by: Key2871 on October 22, 2021, 03:34:35 PM
The small magnet on the frame can get fouled if you remove and replace wrong.
So it's much easier to replace the entire ringer, not just parts. Gongs are one thing, but mechanical parts, just leave them be. I have lived and learned that long ago.