French Thomson-Houston column phone

[countryman]

I had been after a phone with this unique handset design for a while. It's referred to as "combiné à cornet", "monophone" or "hygeaphone". The latter name is referring to a very up-to-date aspect which would be highly discussed if phones had not become mostly personal items nowadays.
Transmitter and receiver sit back-to-back in the upper part of the handset and are directly connected in-line, so that only a 2-strand handset cord is used! Accordingly, there is no induction coil inside this phone and no second transmitter is provided, unusual for a French phone.
As there are none of the French official marks and plates, this phone must have been made for a private branch exchange. It has fixtures both for a ringer and a dial, and both look very original to me. It might have been equipped with both gadgets right away, or they were added to the fixtures later. At least the clear fingerwheel must be younger than the phone. Unfortunately, I found no dates so far.
The phone is complete only minus the mounting cord and IT WORKS. It has patina and was a bit dusty but not filthy or neglected. The seller described the condition as "dans son jus" - "in it's juice" 
It came to me straight out of Central France for quite moderate purchase and shipping costs (to Germany). I'm really happy with the find!
These are the seller's pics, I'll make some closeup and inside photos tomorrow.

[Doug Rose]

Very Nice Countryman, a unique design. I have a few of the "handsets" but not a phone. Tis a beauty,,,,Doug

[FABphones]

I nearly bid (but am running low on older dials to replace that one).

The dial is not the first that would have been on there and probably dates from the mid 1960's on. It should be dated on the rear. I believe this phone would have been manufactured without a dial, and the dial added at a later date.

Intercoms didn't have the additional earpiece, it wasn't needed (folks may correct me, but this is what I have been led to believe with telephones which have been manufactured with no 'écouteur').

Those cute handsets are always a talking point. 

Well done, a nice addition to the collection. Glad I didn't bid now I know you are the new guardian.

Just a noté, if it were me, when displayed I would turn the Cornet so it hangs with the Bakelite facing outwards. It will help prevent the Bakelite from damage by tapping, and the bottom of the receiver will bend away from the base so it doesn't chip at the paint.

It will clean up beautifully, looking forward to seeing more.

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Here are mine, for comparison:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=23419

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ETA: The phone's manufacturer plaque may have originally been in the area where the dial is now. Similar model illustrated below:

[Jack Ryan]

I believe this phone would have been manufactured without a dial, and the dial added at a later date.

May I ask, why do you think that?

Thomson Houston introduced Strowger automatic to France in 1913. It used this type of phone and wooden residence sets similar to the "Geelong Phone" but with a monophone.

Edit: I meant to write that dealers often convert the non-dial version with the bell to a dial version with no bell. That is where the left handed telephones come from. The dial mount and the bell mount is the same.

Regards
Jack

[FABphones]

May I ask, why do you think that?

Generally speaking, from the lack of documentation (I have yet to find a good French telephony book or two of the time, but this thread has prompted me to look harder), and from those I have handled. Also from those I have come across but not touched and trying to date them piece by piece (so many have wrong handsets or ecouteur for example), and from phones purpose built with both the dial and the ecouteur.
Pretty much the same as elsewhere I guess, some models were updated with dial and added to catalogues to show off their progress. For me it is a 'pieces' thing, and whether something sits right together.
It is still, and always will be, a work in progress. 

I haven't pinned it down to when but I think (so that's worth little) probably dial added back at the factory/approved atelier, just not when first designed or at first press, so to speak. This one is missing it's plaque which I believe would have been where the dial is now. But I am, as always, open to being wrong, it's good to learn. 

I am still looking to buy a few with older dials. I have so many of these Perspex dials and so few of the older dials to replace them with that I have to be a bit picky and let some otherwise nice phones pass me by.

Would like to compare side by side but those in my collection right now have no dial. They will be found over time. I have missed a few nice ones as they sell for a little above my reach. I have been thinking for a while now, it is time for me to thin out the collection and replace some inquisitive buys with a bit more quality.

Hope this reads ok, I seem to be having a nonsensical time of it trying to write this.

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Edit to say glad to see your attachment Jack, I like this type of documentation, and another good comparison for countryman's find too.

[countryman]

I really have no proof that this phone left the factory in the present configuration. On the other hand, it might be so. I have not found a sign of bricolage here besides the 2 wires connected to L1 and L2.
Especially the neck-shaped mount of both ringer and dial looks factory. It would be a major operation to retrofit this part into an existing phone base. Of course there might have been a dial blank sitting in it at some point of time, but I have not seen such a phone displayed with a dial blank.
Unfortunately I still found no dates yet. Dr. Watson concludes that this phone was made while the funny handset was still in production, and the common French standard dial (an AE offspring) was already in production. But what will Sherlock make out of it?

Speaking of funny handset, I knew I saw those before...

[countryman]

Interesting that the literature presented by Jack speaks of a polyphone, as well as the phone's own diagram sticker. I've found it referred to as monophone several times. Or are these different beasts again and I missed that?
Some more pics. The transmitter is so cool, too sad that it sits where nobody can see it.
Last pic is the phone re-assembled and with the handset hung up as suggested by FABphones, which seems to be the correct way.

[FABphones]

Thanks for taking and adding those photos, really good to have the detail on the thread. Pictures are a great aid to the learning process.

The dial is one of the earlier 'Perspex' (my name for them) dials. Unfortunately not near mine right now to try and pin down a date via comparison.

Pleased to see you have the schematic in there and that it shows the dial (cadran) and bell (sonnerie). Looks good to me.

I like the way TH 'monogrammed' their transmitters. Always nice to see such detail, especially bearing in mind that so few who have handled that phone will ever have seen it.

Really pleased for you. 

[Jack Ryan]

Generally speaking, from the lack of documentation (I have yet to find a good French telephony book or two of the time, but this thread has prompted me to look harder), and from those I have handled. Also from those I have come across but not touched and trying to date them piece by piece (so many have wrong handsets or ecouteur for example), and from phones purpose built with both the dial and the ecouteur.

I haven't pinned it down to when but I think (so that's worth little) probably dial added back at the factory/approved atelier, just not when first designed or at first press, so to speak. This one is missing it's plaque which I believe would have been where the dial is now. But I am, as always, open to being wrong, it's good to learn. 

I'm not sure that I follow your logic.

When you say the dial was added back at the factory, do you mean the facility for a dial was added or that a dial replaced the original blank?

The document I took the scan from also contained a dial-less version of the telephone - that is, no place for a dial. At the front is a plaque.

The phone was first introduced without a dial as there were no dials. In 1913, the first public auto exchange in France was installed for which dial telephones were needed. I don't think dial-less phones were brought back to the factory for conversion, I think new telephones with the provision for a dial were manufactured.

Regards
Jack

[Jack Ryan]

Speaking of funny handset, I knew I saw those before...

http://telephoneexchange.info/ART_HistoryOfTelephony.html

Jack

[Jack Ryan]

Last pic is the phone re-assembled and with the handset hung up as suggested by FABphones, which seems to be the correct way.

I think few would hang the handset that way. You would have to twist your arm to do it.

Is your receiver magnetic?

The original auto phones used a series circuit like those used by Automatic Electric, ATM and Northern Electric.

Regards
Jack

[FABphones]

I'm not sure that I follow your logic..

I'll bet. Having trouble even trying to write it down.

I have never seen these with a blank, I think this design/model may have come off the drawing board late, and rather than go to the expense (man hours, new presses) of drawing up another at that time, some were adapted, be that with a completely new jig at factory or atelier I cannot confirm. Maybe both. 2 jigs.

It is the lack of ecouteur, and in part why I question this version. Ecouteurs were needed, and appeared on earlier, and later phones. So why not this dial model with unless it was originally designed as an Intercom and therefore not considered necessary. Or maybe TH simply never intended their market for these to need anything more than local. Much to learn.

I think few would hang the handset that way. You would have to twist your arm to do it...

Nope, for me it is one straight movement, ear to hook. The illustrated way for me involves a twist of the wrist. Also depends on placement of phone of course.

The illustrations show it the other way, but in practicality, to save the Bakelite and paint from damage facing 'away' is best. A better fit (I note the illustrated Cornets appear to be shorter).

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Great thread, hope more info gets added.

Maybe I am muddying the waters further. I have no back up documentation. Sometimes I just question the perceived unquestionable. As the saying goes, I'll get me coat.... 

[countryman]

There are terminals for an ecouteur provided and shown in the diagram, but in the phone there is a jumper instead which looks factory. Also there is no hanger for the second receiver and it does not look like there ever was one. Longer screws would be needed to mount it, too.
Possibly this phone was designed for a larger private automated system where external calls were not the norm, or not from this extension.

Edit to add:

The dial is one of the earlier 'Perspex' (my name for them) dials.
(...)
Really pleased for you. 

Thanks FABphones, also for the information about the dial. So it's unlikely that this dial is original to the phone. Or was just the fingerwheel swapped for a newer look?
@Jack, the receiver is not magnetic, it's designed for DC flowing through it.

[FABphones]

...So it's unlikely that this dial is original to the phone. Or was just the fingerwheel swapped for a newer look?..

Most likely it had a nice Mercedes dial.

Screenshot from, and more info on:
https://www.britishtelephones.com/dialiden.html

[19and41]

I, too remember seeing that style handset before.  It was used with the field phones the Japanese military used during WWII.