WE Transmitter Cups

[Sargeguy]

Thanks,Chuck



The photo above is from an eBay auction for a WE transmitter and cup.  The auction hasa number of bids,so thought I would inform potential bidders. The cup is the "riveted"type.  The rivets are clearly visible in the photo.  ALthough these are old, they were refurbished in the 1930s. The nickel is sandblasted,the holes were notched,and it was re-painted black.  The bracket is a newer type onlyused on refurbished cups, NOT the highly sought after early type found on 20-X series candlesticks.  These are pretty much useless for restoring old candlesticks to original condition, and so they do not command nearly the same prices as early types-Buyer Beware.  They are good stand-ins for the real thing, and I use them on 151s but even that is probably incorrect.  Also,the hole has been punched out.  A cup with a hole would not have been issued in the 1930s by the Bell System.  This was done later.  The faceplate and mouthpiece look good, but IMHO the cup and bracket are worth about $10-15.  

I am starting to doubt this theory, I think the hollow brackets are earliar.

[MoreCowbell]

Hello.  I am brand to this site and relatively new to phone collecting.  I'm finding this thread very informative.  I have a 20-SC that I am trying to learn more about.  The transmitter cup does not match any of the photos here.  It has the NOV.1-92 printed before NOV.17-91.  Also, as you can see, the bracket is riveted on.

A 229 transmitter is mounted in the cup.  Does anyone know if this cup is original?  This phone has literally been in my family since it was first put into service and has not been frankensteined together, but I suppose that the the phone co. could have swapped it out during servicing years ago if it appears not original.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT:  Forgot to mention that I suspect it is not original since  the center hole is "keyed" to allow an internal transmitter wire even though the wire actually runs externally.

[Sargeguy]

This is a weird one.  

• You're right, the dates are usually in chronological order.
• The solid bracket is riveted on, usually they are screwed on: the hollow brackets are usually riveted on.  
• Most cups are keyed, so that does not matter.
• If a 229 transmitter is on a 20-SC. that is a little odd. 229s are from 20-Bs and other earliar phones.  I would expect a 329.  Also, it should be painted black.
• There are holes, not notches, indicating an earliar transmitter
• Is the rest of the phone black?  If so, this was probably a field replacement for a bad 291 or 329 transmitter.

[MoreCowbell]

Thanks for the quick reply!     I'm attaching a few pictures of the phone.  For a while I thought it was a 20-B since it has the 122 receiver and 229 transmitter ... then I later found the model # was stamped on the back says 20SC (I'm a newbie).  I guess I'm a little confused since most photos of the 20-SC I've found all have the newer receiver with the internal terminals.  It seems strange that this would have been retrofitted with older parts (although I like that it has the older receiver).  That fact that the transmitter cup is not quite normal just adds to my confusion. 

[Sargeguy]

That's interesting.  Usually you will see an earlier stick with later parts, what you have is a later stick with earlier parts!!!  Maybe the switch was bad and the repairman had the 20-SC stand on the truck.  Even the base plate is covered in green felted wool, which is normally reserved for nickel plated phones.  The good news is that those earlier parts, the transmitter, cup, receiver and baseplate with original green felt, are much more sought after than the parts that should be on this phone.  Maybe the backwards patent dates explains it.  Is this phone from an alternate dimension where time passes backwards???

[Doug Rose]

Janet found this WE D6432 in a box of parts this morning at a Flea market. It was a mess. I thought it was rusted out, but it was just covered with sh*t  and really filthy. Inside of transmitter does not look like it is all there, but this displays well. Any ideas on this, it starts with a D, but I am not getting my hopes up....Doug


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290806637549

[Sargeguy]

It looks like the numbers have been overstruck.  The diaphragm looks weird, is it different?

[Doug Rose]

Greg...I took the screws out, but could not get it to open and did not want to force it. Looked different looking into it with the MO off, like something might be missing. I am far from an expert....Doug

[G-Man]

Thanks for the quick reply!    I'm attaching a few pictures of the phone.  For a while I thought it was a 20-B since it has the 122 receiver and 229 transmitter ... then I later found the model # was stamped on the back says 20SC (I'm a newbie).  I guess I'm a little confused since most photos of the 20-SC I've found all have the newer receiver with the internal terminals.  It seems strange that this would have been retrofitted with older parts (although I like that it has the older receiver).  That fact that the transmitter cup is not quite normal just adds to my confusion.  

From the TCI Library.....

                                Standard List Price

Code No.                       Descrlptlon                               Finish    Each

1020-SC      For regular local battery bridging or            Black       6.90
                   central battery service.
                   lncludes:   1 No. 229-W transmitter, 1
                   No. 122-W receiver, l  No. 392 cords
                   Thls stand is the same as the No.
                   1020-BC except the finish.


 1020-BC   For regular local battery bridging or               Nickel      $6.90
                  central battery service.                                  Plate
                  Includes :   1 No. 229 W transmitter, 1
                  No. 122-W receiver , 1 No. 392 cord.
                  This may be used with a No. 7 type
                  coin collector on single party llnes,
                  or on party lines when code ringing
                  is employed.

[G-Man]

Thanks for the quick reply!    I'm attaching a few pictures of the phone.  For a while I thought it was a 20-B since it has the 122 receiver and 229 transmitter ... then I later found the model # was stamped on the back says 20SC (I'm a newbie).  I guess I'm a little confused since most photos of the 20-SC I've found all have the newer receiver with the internal terminals.  It seems strange that this would have been retrofitted with older parts (although I like that it has the older receiver).  That fact that the transmitter cup is not quite normal just adds to my confusion.  

Additional showing that the type of receiver was specified by the customer.....

The concealed binding post (No. 143-W) receiver
is recommended for the No. 1020 type of desk set ;
but either it or the exposed binding post (No. l22-W)
receiver will be furnished, as specified on the order.
Both are dust-proof and require no adjustment after
leaving the factory.

[Sargeguy]

Interesting, so you could get the older parts on the latest model for a discount as long as you don't mind the occasional shock.  Way to go Bell System, getting rid of all that old stock. 

[Sargeguy]

Doug, is the diaphragm flat?  It looks like there is a bump around the center screw, or is that the camera playing tricks on me?

[K1WI]

Doug,
   Not an expert by any means , but I've seen the "D" prefix on transmitters that were used as microphones.  I use a D90801 on my ham radio transmitter and have a few others with the D.  Don't have any BSPs or other documentation but I'm sure it's out there.
     Andy F   K1WI

[poplar1]

D (Design) numbers were used by Western Electric both on some items when they were first produced, as well as on some other items that were made in small quantities.

[Doug Rose]

Doug, is the diaphragm flat?  It looks like there is a bump around the center screw, or is that the camera playing tricks on me?

Greg....I cannot budge that pate, here are two close ups. Looks like something is missing. I am not an expert on these. To me, either they work or they don't....Doug