nickel 20AL questions

[cchaven]

I have a nickel WE 20AL that was one of my first telephone purchases.  When I got it, one side of it's perch was broken.  The original drawn perch was stamped '20AL' on the back...and I was able to find another nickel drawn perch that had the back struck thru and '20AL' stamped in the front.  The base has the markings of WESTERN ELECTRIC COMPANY/PAT IN USA AUG 16 04 SEPT 13 04, and the transmitter cup is unmarked.  The transmitter currently in it is a WE 250W, as when I got it it had a Kellogg trasmitter installed and the 250W was the only nickel WE transmitter I could come up with.

Any ideas on what this may have actually started as, given the earlier age of the base?

Thanks
Jeff

[Sargeguy]

Usually you find nickel solid perches or "Hershey"s Kiss" perches like this, a drawn perch is a little unusual.  I have a 20-B that was re-marked "20-S" which indicates it was painted black at some point.  Probably a 20-PC or 20-BC that was painted black and re-marked during refurbishment.  The older base was added as well when it was refurbished, either in the factory or later by a collector.  Officially a 20-AL  would use a 291 or more likely a 329, but there are a lot of possibilities.  DO yu have any pictures?

[cchaven]

It was never painted.  The whole phone (base, tube, switch hook, transmitter cup) is nickel plated.  Both the original perch that came with it, and the replacment perch are nickel plated and marked '20AL' .  I was thinking that with the earlier base, that it may have started out as an earlier model with a solid or kiss perch.

It has a 144 receiver, cloth cords and I added a black WE dial card holder with an unused dial card.  The nickel has some pitting in places and isn't as nice as some of the sets I've seen, but it's still a striking set.  Here's a quick pic of it.

Jeff

[Sargeguy]

A 20-AL and a 20-PC are the same phone except that the 20-AL is painted black and the 20-PC is nickel.  So any perch marked 20-AL must have been black at some point in its lifetime, or else it would have been a 20-PC.  Maybe someone needed a nickel perch to put on a nickel phone and had it nickel plated.  Otherwise it was a 20-PC that was repainted and re-marked.  Are there any markings that have been crossed out on the perch?. 

[cchaven]

On the original broken perch that was installed on the set when I got it there are no markings crossed out.  On the replacement perch that I picked up later from a totally unrelated source it has a stamping crossed out on the back, though I can't make out what it is.  Otherwise the two perches are identical, including the plating and neither looks to have been painted then stripped again.  Reading thru your stickies regarding the ID of various parts, it would seem that this base was used on any number of nickel sets?  Any rough idea, based on the parts I've outlined, when this may have originally been manufactured?

Thanks
Jeff

[poplar1]

Since the base does not have the 1915 patent date, that part was made between 1904 and 1915. What year did WE start making drawn perches?

[Sargeguy]

I would suspect your original perch was re-nickeled, and your replacement perch was a 20-PC converted to 20-AL.  The paint used to re-paint can be stripped pretty easily without leaving any trace, so you would not see any.  The base would be appropriate for most of the solid perch phones manufactured between 1904 and 1914, most likely a 20-B.  This base was from late in the series, since the patent they refer to was granted in 1915.   The only phone it would not be appropriate would be the 20-S (unless you painted it black).

[Sargeguy]

What year did WE start making drawn perches?

I always thought it was by 1913 or so.  Actually, my 20-PC has "PATENT APPLIED FOR" on the back of the cup, but a 1915 base.

[poplar1]

I would suspect your original perch was re-nickeled, and your replacement perch was a 20-PC converted to 20-AL.  The paint used to re-paint can be stripped pretty easily without leaving any trace, so you would not see any.  The base would be appropriate for most of the solid perch phones manufactured between 1904 and 1914, most likely a 20-B.  This base was from late in the series, since the patent they refer to was granted in 1915.   The only phone it would not be appropriate would be the 20-S (unless you painted it black).

I don't understand why you say the patent they refer to [on the base] was granted in 1915.

"The base has the markings of WESTERN ELECTRIC COMPANY/PAT IN USA AUG 16 04 SEPT 13 04, and the transmitter cup is unmarked."

[cchaven]

Thanks all the info.  I've never been sure just when it would've dated from, even with the '04 patent dates on the base.  I don't plan on changing anything else on it other than changing the transmitter to a nickel Western Electric....the parts are proper Western Electric and nothing is horrily mismatched.

Thanks
Jeff

[Sargeguy]

I'm sorry, I'm going blind and shouldn't read posts on an iPad.   I thought Jeff wrote that he had a"PAT APPLIED FOR" base which replaced  The PAT IN USA 1904 base when the drawn perch was introduced around 1913-14?