What has affected candlestick, oilcan, potbelly pricing trends last 15 years?

[rfkimba]

 Some more senior members of ATCA than I (57) has indicated the hobby is in decline due to use of cell phones and reduction in disposable income. They see difficulty in recruiting new members. Others have indicated that EBay has equilibrated supply and demand so what was once so rare and hard to find at shows  is more available at less cost. 

Any educated opinions on this subject of where the hobby and pricing is going?

[Phonesrfun]

I don't blame cell phones or changes in disposable income, and if anything, ebaY should be helping us find phones from all corners of the country and the world.

From what I understand, phone collecting is kind of a recent hobby.  For sure, we know phone collecting did not exist before about 1875.  I think phone collecting came about after WW II, for the most part, although there were those that collected anything old before then.  It probably really got going in the 1960's to 1970's and began to get organized when the clubs got formed and information in the form of newsletters and phone shows got under way.  The Internet has really helped that aspect.  Take this forum as an example, and the several listserves.

I know that other hobbies are languishing too.  My wife belongs to a trail riding club, and they seem to have the same issue.  Aging members and difficulty attracting new members.  I have a ham radio license, and us hams have the same issue.

For reasons I cannot explain, some hobbies are declining.  These things don't seem to intrigue younger folks.  I remember when a young boy would salivate to get a model train for Christmas.  Older teens would spend hours in marvel going through Popular Science, Popular Mechanics or Popular Electronics Magazines.  Maybe that was an era when we could understand and get our arms around the mechanical, scientific or electronic concepts, so we read up on these things and desired to own a piece of it for ourselves.'

Technology is getting to be beyond the ability for many to understand.  Except for maybe Harry Smith, most of us quit working on our own cars years ago.  I don't even bother to change my own oil.

Maybe we are in such a state of disposable technology, nobody really cares or marvels about things like telephones.

Short answer is that I have no clue as to where this is heading.

[TelePlay]

Short answer is that I have no clue as to where this is heading.

That may be but except for not having added Motor Trend to the list, you got the historical perspective spot on.

[Sargeguy]

I think that the emergence of eBay has driven down the price of more common phones as more and more "barn fresh" phones turn up.  It has driven up the price of older rare ones as more bidders have access to the auctions.  Rare old phones still command really good prices.  More people are collecting "plastic" these days and stuff that was once considered junk now may command a premium as tastes change. 

[Greg G.]

Some more senior members of ATCA than I (57) has indicated the hobby is in decline due to use of cell phones and reduction in disposable income. They see difficulty in recruiting new members. Others have indicated that EBay has equilibrated supply and demand so what was once so rare and hard to find at shows  is more available at less cost. 

Any educated opinions on this subject of where the hobby and pricing is going?

I would not necessarily connect the difficulty of ATCA in recruiting new members as an indication of a decline in the hobby.  It's only an indication of ATCA having difficulty in recruiting new members.  I used to be an ATCA member but dropped it.  I won't go into the gory details, but part of the reason was that I didn't find their member communications (an intractable listserve and outdated Yahoo group) very useful.

A decline of disposable income would certainly have an impact on the hobby as it would any other recreational pursuit.  I don't see the use of cell phones as having a negative impact on the hobby, I don't understand that connection at all.  If anything, cell phones, especially the "smart" ones, are the reason I use a vintage rotary for my daily driver.  I also don't agree that ebay has had a negative impact on getting more people into the hobby, I would think it does the opposite.  Yes, it would drive prices down because like you said, what was once hard to find is much easier to locate, simple supply and demand.

[G-Man]

I am absolutely unable to understand the comment regarding cellphones; by any chance are you taking it out of context?

Can you provide us with the exact statement so that we can have a better understanding as to why someone would make such a ridiculous comment?

Thanks

Some more senior members of ATCA than I (57) has indicated the hobby is in decline due to use of cell phones and reduction in disposable income. They see difficulty in recruiting new members. Others have indicated that EBay has equilibrated supply and demand so what was once so rare and hard to find at shows  is more available at less cost. 

Any educated opinions on this subject of where the hobby and pricing is going?

[Matilo Telephones]

Ridiculous? Well here a lot of people discontinue their landline, in whatever form (copper, DSL, calble, glasfibre, etc'.

With mobile telephony so much cheaper these days, why would you still have a landline?

And people without a landline will be less inclined to start collecting telephones. After all, being able to us them is a great part of the fun. That can make all the difference between buying that first Phone to start a collection and not buying it.

[Doug Rose]

I disagree with the statement and find it hard to believe that a knowledgeable collector would say that. Collecting telephones has no bearing on cell phones any more than cordless land line phones; which we have many in our home.

Collecting Old Telephones is collecting pure and simple. Mine sit on a shelf or hang on the wall. They are displayed and not actively working. Right now my old phones work off off Comcast Digital. They work better hung off a Panasonic 616. Will they work in ten years, I doubt it. Hopefully I am wrong.

Every day ends with me spending a little time in my phone room before bed. I enjoy looking at my collection, whether they are working or not. Telephones are my art. If in ten years I can no longer use them, I was still admire them as the art they are. ...Doug

[Dennis Markham]

A good conversation, although it has drifted somewhat off-topic from the question of what has "affected candlestick, oilcan, potbelly pricing trends in the last 15 years? 

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.  I can see the point of view that Matilo Telephones made.  I am an example of that scenario.  I had moved into a new home.  This was prior to owning even one "vintage" telephone.  In the neighborhood where I bought my house, I got very poor cellular telephone reception.  I decided to get a land line so that I wouldn't miss any important calls.  The house had a wall phone jack.  While surfing eBay for something else I stumbled on a rotary dial wall phone.  I bought it.  It arrived, I hung it on the wall jack and it sounded great when it rang.  It reminded me of my youth when everyone had a phone like that.  I bought another, then another, then met a local phone collector...and the rest is history.

So there is some connection there to cell phone use or lack of it.

Now that I do collect vintage phones I agree with Doug's statement as well.  If I can no longer use my phones I still admire them and enjoy collecting the various models, colors, etc.

Generally speaking, I think people start by collecting the phones (or anything) that they used in their youth.  I was born after the time when wooden phones and other earlier phones were commonly used.  I have less interest in that genre than in the phones of the late 40's and 50's.  I remember once at the local phone show where I overheard a collector talking to another collector.  When asked a question about a certain phone, he said (paraphrasing)......."I don't know, I don't collect PLASTIC".....like it was a bad thing.  It may be generational.  But of course we have new collectors like Ben and Christian that weren't even born until well after the break-up of the phone company, who have a passion for the old phones.

I think that prices for plastic phones of the 50's have increased in value based on the prices I see on eBay.  Not run-of-the-mill phones but case in point is the recent sale of the Pink 500P that sold for $725, or the Mediterranean Blue 500 (without complete cords) that went high into the $400's.

I don't know what pricing currently is for the phones mentioned in the topic title, but like always it is supply and demand that dictates the prices.  If the demand is diminishing the prices will as well.  We know that the supply is limited.  I also think the hobby is alive and well.   Will the future generations collect telephones with as much enthusiasm as the current generation?  Only time will tell.  But thanks to the current collectors many have been saved for the next. 

Sorry to drift off topic, if I did.  These thoughts came to mind as I read through this thread.

~Dennis

[WesternElectricBen]

I am sorry to keep drifting this off of the main topic:

But, I agree, I don't think cell phones really have affected telephone collectors too much. Now, we can easily ring our telephones, and test them for perfect accuracy.

Speaking as one of the youngest member here on why I think younger people are not into collecting, is that my friends at least, are bigger in to sports, rather than collecting. One of my friend's and I built a computer so he could play games on it, not telephone collecting, but it seems my generation has gotten into computers. Just to re-explain, I think my generation is big into things like sports and computers, but that seems to be it..

Though, computers are not phones, but I think computers are the new phones. Meaning, if people do end up collecting, that is what it will be, because it was the main electronic of our generation.

Just my thoughts,

Ben

[Contempra]

I disagree with the statement and find it hard to believe that a knowledgeable collector would say that. Collecting telephones has no bearing on cell phones any more than cordless land line phones; which we have many in our home.

Collecting Old Telephones is collecting pure and simple. Mine sit on a shelf or hang on the wall. They are displayed and not actively working. Right now my old phones work off off Comcast Digital. They work better hung off a Panasonic 616. Will they work in ten years, I doubt it. Hopefully I am wrong.

Every day ends with me spending a little time in my phone room before bed. I enjoy looking at my collection, whether they are working or not. Telephones are my art. If in ten years I can no longer use them, I was still admire them as the art they are. ...Doug

samething for me I agree with this comment

[Greg G.]

... more and more "barn fresh" phones turn up.  ...

I get a real chuckle out that term and "estate sale fresh".  Maybe I'll start using them as search terms.

[tallguy58]

Let me just pipe in with my experience collecting comic books (50 yrs.), which I hope will tie in somehow with phone collecting.

There was a time when I could go to the local used book shop or flea market and find amazing comics for sale. That was because nobody knew the value of them and no guide was published outlining their value. Then came the guide and as with everything collectible, people started to gain a bit of knowledge about them. Everyone followed the guide to price their books.  Unfortunately, prices went up as well and every moron thought because a comic was old it was worth a fortune. Collecting grew exponentially and all of a sudden conventions popped up. Collecting comics became mainstream with specialty shops etc.  This was great because now dealers had a pile of good stuff to pour through.  Conventions were everywhere.

Then came eBay.

Now, anyone could sell their comics for "guide" price instead of the 50% the dealers would give you. This worked at the beginning, but soon there was a flood of stuff which resulted in a drop in price; supply and demand, remember?
The only good thing was the market dictated the price of everything.

Dealers were taking a bath at conventions...they were trying to charge guide prices when everything was much lower on eBay. Personally, I kept going to conventions but soon discovered that the number of dealers was rapidly dwindling. Not only that, but I could find really rare stuff on eBay and do it from the comfort of my home. This continued for a few years and then I realised that conventions sucked and were a colossal waste of time. No dealers and full of gamers and toy dealers. Then conventions themselves started disappearing.

Then a weird thing happened...eBay sucked as well. No more rare stuff, no more auctions, just Buy It Now crap at inflated prices.

What does this have to do with phones? Well, This hobby is kinda like the was it was years ago in the comic field. You can still find this stuff at flea markets really cheap. Phone collecting hasn't gone mainstream like a lot of other collectibles.  Heck,  there's not a ton of different phone models to collect as compared to comic books,  No guide has been published outlining the values (I personally think a guide kills any hobby).

I guess this is a cautionary tale in that I hope eBay doesn't ruin the convention end of things. From what I see, there aren't that many anyway. The one positive is that eBay sure has decided the market value of things.

Let's just keep this hobby quiet and away from scumbag speculators. They ruin everything.

[Sargeguy]

That gives me an idea. I am going to start a service where you can send me your phone, I will assign it a grade of 1-10 (or 60-65?), seal it in plastic, attach a hologram and mail it back to you for a modest fee.

[tallguy58]

 Ha, ha, Greg that's hilarious.

Slab a phone like a comic and destroy any possibility of ever enjoying it.

Makes sense with a baseball card....only has two sides. But slabbing anything else??