Japanning Trial

[NorthernElectric]

So I've got this WE 20-AB that looked like somebody's unfinished project phone from decades ago.  It was brassed out but the entire phone is well patinated with a few small spots of verdigris here and there.  I got a regular 20 series hook to replace the railway headphone hook and a nickeled 277W transmitter for it.  I thought I might just take a crack at Japanning the phone (except the nickel transmitter, of course), since it needs a finish on it.  I am using the original transmitter cup for a test subject and if I like it, I'll take a stab at doing the rest of the phone.

For my Japanning, I used roughly equal parts of DAP Black roofing tar (contains asphalt and mineral spirits), mineral spirits, and spar varnish.  I think the main departure from a more traditional Japan finish is that the spar varnish likely contains synthetic resin instead of natural.  I have read that Gilsonite (asphaltum mined in Utah) was used for Japanning so I hope that the asphalt that DAP uses has similar properties.  And I hope that my proportions are suitable.

Here is the cup after 1st coat, and then baked in a toaster oven at 250 for half an hour.  I have the 2nd coat baking right now and after it's been in for 1/2 hour I will take it off the newspaper (which is in there baking with it) and turn up the heat to 350 and give it another 1/2 hour, then let it cool and continue to cure for a day or 2.  After that, I will see if it needs any smoothing or buffing, maybe give it a 3rd coat, or jump right to a final coat of just varnish.

[HarrySmith]

Looks pretty good, Cliff. Please keep us updated. There is a post here somewhere where someone did a japaning job that was much more tedious This seems much easier.

[NorthernElectric]

There is a post here somewhere where someone did a japaning job that was much more tedious This seems much easier.

I searched before trying this and searched again after reading your reply.  I found posts by cihensley where he mentioned rejapanning parts, but no details on the process were given, and I don't think I found any other members posting that they had done any Japanning.

Here it is after the 2nd coat and baking 1/2 hour at 250 and another 1/2 hour at 350.

[TelePlay]

As an FYI, those who collect old hand tools prefer japanning when restoring them. I started browsing their forums the last time japanning came up on the forum. One of them posted a link to this book back in 2006. Seems to be the original or first book written on the process. It dates to 1901, revised in 1913, and does not match what I have read about the WE process but it is interesting background on the process. Some of the materials used and the methods employed to "cook" them are less than desirable today.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15622/15622-h/15622-h.htm

A pdf print out of this link is attached in case the above link goes bad.

There is a topic somewhere on the forum detailing japanning but I have not yet found it either.

[unbeldi]

Of interest might also be this article of 1918:

George J. Kirkgasser, Electric Heat for Drying and Baking, Industrial Management 56(6), 489 (December 1918)

[NorthernElectric]

Thanks, I think I've seen both of those documents linked in previous posts.

I am having trouble with runs that seem to occur after they go in the oven.  Presumably, before the Japanning starts to dry, it flows somewhat which helps to smooth out brush marks but also seems to encourage runs.  I tried switching to a foam brush and applying the Japan thinner to begin with and smoothing it over with a second round of brush strokes after initial application.  It hasn't helped.  Anybody care to offer an opinion on the consistency of the mixture being too thin or too thick?

I tried wet sanding with 220, then 400, then polishing compound before I put the 3rd coat on but wore the finish very thin in spots.  After the 3rd coat I skipped the 220, went straight to the 400, polish, rubbed with conservators  wax, 0000 steel wool, more sanding, polishing, and wax.

If it wasn't for still being able to see the runs, it would look great.  It does look great from about 4 feet away, but up close the imperfections are obvious.

[NorthernElectric]

I finally had a nice day to work on this again (I've been doing it outside).  Since the last photos, I had done a bit more sanding and polishing to smooth out the runs as much as possible.  For today's final coat, I thinned out my Japan mixture a bit and also warmed up the cup in the toaster oven as it was heating up prior to applying the Japan.  My theory being that the Japan went on too thick in the previous coats due to the cool temperature outside, then started to flow as it warmed in the oven before it dried enough to set.  I didn't get any new runs this time, but I may have applied it too thin as it failed to cover the sharp edges where it got sanded bare, but it stuck well to the previous Japan coat and ended with a nice even coat which polished up nicely.

Now I have to work up the nerve to try it on an entire phone.   

[TelePlay]

Very nice! Any plans to put another coat on the cup?

[NorthernElectric]

Very nice! Any plans to put another coat on the cup?

I think I will just move on to doing the phone.  I have a nickeled transmitter for it which looks in decent enough shape, so this is for now, a spare cup.

[cloyd]

NorthernElectric,

I would love to see the final results of your Japanning Trial on the whole phone!  Care to share?

Tina Loyd

[NorthernElectric]

NorthernElectric,

I would love to see the final results of your Japanning Trial on the whole phone!  Care to share?

Tina Loyd

Well, I never got around to japanning the whole phone yet.  I don't recall exactly why, but probably a combination of being distracted by other phones and getting busy with other things and next thing I knew winter had come.  I didn't want to bake it in the house so was using an old toaster oven outside.  Though I have more time on my hands in the winter, I live in Canada where conditions are not suitable for doing this outside at that time of year.

Also, my mixture was somewhat experimental and perhaps too thick which resulted in runs that required much sanding and polishing.  My initial test performed on a rifle cartridge case seemed too thin and I could still see brass through the japan after 2 coats, so I thickened it up some.  Maybe the right mix is somewhere in between.  Sure wish I had made more notes on how much of each ingredient I used.  I have not abandoned the idea though and may carry on with that this year now that spring might be here.  I say 'might' because we had below freezing lows 2 nights this week.

I will post updates when I have progress to report.   

[cloyd]

The whole idea of painting with TAR is fascinating to me!  I can't imagine anyone thinking of this application for the first time.  You would think that someone would have had the idea to market a kit.  Perhaps I should check that out.

Tina

[countryman]

I have read about japanning in some threads. When I restored my first OB05 (wood/steel German desk crank phone) I thought that these might have a similar coating on the metal parts. They can be polished using methylated spirits (denatured alcohol), not unlike chemical sanding Tenite. Bituminous (Asphaltum) products are soluble in alcohol and other solvents.
Now I received a pair of really rusty specimens (I'll show them in a different thread later). I looked for a suitable paint to restore them and found a factory made Bitumen Paint. I did some trials with it and it seems to me that it is much like the original.  It might not be required to mix obscure ingredients at home to obtain acceptable restoration results.
There are many types of Bitumen products for weatherproofing roofs and other outdoor applications. They are not the same thing. The Bitumen Paint I tried is glossy, dries up fast, is easy to work with and is odorless when dry. A quick search found that similar products are available internationally. They might be close to what the telephone industry used back in the days?

I have not done the phones yet but the trials look good.

[TelePlay]

Thanks for the refreshing research on this type of coating.

This is a giant step forward in the jappaning topic and surprised how this commercially available, and relatively inexpensive, product has slipped under the nose of seasoned restoration and long time members on this forum.

Black Jack is available in the US. As for your use with phones, I see many ways to explore this product including the areas of thinning, multiple coats, surface prep and baking.

Thanks again for the heads up on this and will be waiting to see what you discover, including images.

[FABphones]

...I looked for a suitable paint to restore them and found a factory made Bitumen Paint. I did some trials with it and it seems to me that it is much like the original.  It might not be required to mix obscure ingredients at home to obtain acceptable restoration results.
There are many types of Bitumen products for weatherproofing roofs and other outdoor applications. They are not the same thing. The Bitumen Paint I tried is glossy, dries up fast, is easy to work with and is odorless when dry. A quick search found that similar products are available internationally.

I use a bitumen paint, purchased for wood. I'd need to check the container as to it's suggested applications but on wood it paints on easily, dries to a semi gloss finish and is durable (I never found a product like this in the UK but they may have similar). The metal I have previously applied it to never gave me any concern so I never looked closely at it. It never occurred to me to use it for this hobby.

I'll make a note to do a bit of experimentation on metals, testing out various thinners and see what results I get (I'll be honest - I sometimes thin this kind of stuff down using oil from the tractor saved back after it gets a service, for my purpose works a treat and remains nice and dark).

Blackening metal is something I have been looking into lately. Thanks for the pointer.

Looking forward to seeing your results.