51al with #2 brass dial

[wds]

I picked up a 51al from Ebay, all brass.  The pictures weren't very good, but it didn't appear to be a repro.  Plus I figured who would put a #2 no notch dial on a repro?  So I took a chance - the phone arrived today and I'm sure it's not a repro.  It is missing the terminal board in the base, but otherwise seems pretty original.  The dial puzzles me a little - I've never seen an all brass #2 dial before.  Is this rare, or common?  I have several #2's, and they are all metal - except for the fingerwheel.   For $122 I think I got a good buy.

[Jester]

Pass a magnet over that housing, I think you'll be surprised!  The earliest #2 housings were copper clad, and the copper was thick enough that they still look "brassy" after the paint is removed.  I have a converted 2/4 on my 50al that I removed all paint & polished, & I really like the look.

[wds]

Your right - copper/brass over steel.  Looks nice though - I might try to salvage the brass look.  

[LarryInMichigan]

Great catch!

[Doug Rose]

So I am clear....the #2 is normal steel with a copper plate that looks brass or is it brass plate over the copper plate? I have never seen  brass on a #2 and it sure looks sharp. From the pictures it looks like it matches the stick perfectly!!!...Doug

[wds]

It looks brass to me also, not copper.  I will remove the dial in the next day or two and check it thorougly.  For now, the brass on the dial does exactly match the brass color on the stick. That's why I thought at first was was a brass dial - not plated.  I was going to sell the dial, but maybe I"ll keep it.

[Doug Rose]

Dave....I would polish that stick, dial and finger wheel and proudly display it. I have never seen another in all brass....Beautiful....Doug

[dencins]

I find this interesting.  Brass electroplating has been around since the 1850's so it is possible it was brass plated.  I do not do brass plating since the electrolyte requires cyanide.

The standard process for decorative brass plating is to plate the steel first with bright nickel then a "flash" layer of brass to get a shiny finish.  The "flash" brass layer is very thin so be careful if you polish it.  Heavy brass plate (rather than "flash") would be dull.

Another approach I have seen is to nickel plate the steel then use a brass tinted lacquer.  This gives the brass color and helps to minimize tarnishing.  Again if you polish it, the lacquer could come off.

Dennis Hallworth 

[wds]

I partially disassembled the dial.  It's brass on the inside also.  I don't see any evidence of black paint anywhere - the dial is very dirty on the inside, and all appearances are that this dial has never been taken apart.  Lots of that green corrosion that you see with brass.  It's going to take a while to clean this one up, but otherwise it seems to be in really good shape.  The number plate is marked 132-A, and the round collar that clips on over the number plate is also solid brass.  Interesting dial.

[Doug Rose]

I partially disassembled the dial.  It's brass on the inside also.  I don't see any evidence of black paint anywhere - the dial is very dirty on the inside, and all appearances are that this dial has never been taken apart.  Lots of that green corrosion that you see with brass.  It's going to take a while to clean this one up, but otherwise it seems to be in really good shape.  The number plate is marked 132-A, and the round collar that clips on over the number plate is also solid brass.  Interesting dial.

Home Run!

[Dan/Panther]

More photos...
D/P

[wds]

Here's a couple "before" pictures.  I'm going to try my best to work on it this weekend.

[Dennis Markham]

Dave, that is one dirty dial!  It should clean up very nice with some patience and a little work.  If you disassemble the dial parts, you may already know that there are two tiny "thrust" washers above and below on the governor axles.  I am told that there are differences in the thicknesses of those washers although undetectable/noticeable to the naked eye.  Keep track of each and put them back on in the same place they are now.

If you remove that bridge piece that is held by a screw at each end, it will lift off.  Often the top thrust washer is stuck to the bottom of that bridge.  Then when you lift the governor out of the hub you will see the other small washer on that axle or stuck to the governor hub.

[dencins]

I have a #2 apart and measured the two "thrust" washers.  One is 0.016" thick and the other is 0.010".  Does anyone know what one goes between the governor and the bridge?

Dennis Hallworth

[wds]

I started on the cleaning.  With the exception of the fingerwheel, which is solid brass, the other parts seem to be brass plated.  The large plate that bolts into the dial, was nickel plated, then brass plated.  The brass rubbed right off, leaving the nickel, which still looks pretty nice.  You can still see spots of brass on the plate.   Not a very good picture, but the nickel plate looks pretty nice.  I can't help wondering why WE went to all that trouble to get an all brass dial, when during that time period no one liked brass - it was either nickel or black. 

Now the fun part, the main dial housing.  I'm not sure what to do with that one - if I rub the brass off, then I'm down to the steel.