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WIRING A WESTERN ELECTRIC 52AB CANDLESTICK

Started by gands-antiques, September 09, 2014, 02:32:10 PM

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unbeldi

#15
Quote from: gands-antiques on September 09, 2014, 11:09:39 PM
I just looked at the 51AL diagram and it is the same diagram as the 52AB that I have been having trouble interpreting.

Will someone please tell me where each of the wires should be connected to.

51AL--one terminal block (R GN)--3 conductor switch cord-2 conductor receiver cord -3 conductor cord to the subset

The colors of the 3 conductor switch are hard to tell apart because two of them look the same color (brownish) and one is black.   

* I will have to figure out something for the subset. 

Thanks,
Gary

Yes, the only diagram in the BSPs that we seem to have commonly available is from Section C63.373 Issue 2 of 1937-03-01. The single page diagram in the TCI library comes from that too, without any reference to origin.

The colors of the wires coming from the hookswitch are not terribly critical to make the phone work, because when the switch engages (off-hook) it connects all three wires together. However, the R-BB contact (for receiver) really should engage last to prevent ear damage.

The diagram is more complicated because it includes the extra switch for the 51CM model, which is omitted in the 51AL and 52AB.
Perhaps it helps if you print out the diagram and with color markers redraw in color the lines relevant to only the 51AL and enhance the (dashed) connections to the dial.

gands-antiques

#16
Thank you.  I just rewired it to one of the many 51AL diagrams and now we're getting somewhere with it.....

It will receive calls, reception is clear but transmission is very low and muffled.

It gets a dial tone now, but when I try to dial out it pops with each number dialed and it does not make a successful call.

I haven't tried to figure out if any of my the subsets will work with this phone.

Thanks,
Gary
 

unbeldi

#17
Here is a 51AL circuit that was published as a WR addendum to the C63.373 BSP, as a solution during WWII when it was necessary to connect sidetone telephones to anti-sidetone subsets, because they just didn't have the resources to convert sticks to AST, or to find sidetone subset anymore.

This of course does not provide sidetone correction.


Credits: I think I got this from Poplar1's BSP collection some time ago.

unbeldi

#18
Here is a colorized version of that same diagram with the dial firmly connected in and the filter eliminated.

Note that this uses your 684A subset that you have, but you need to slightly change a couple connection in there to suit the purpose.

gands-antiques

Thank you very much!!  The color coded diagram helps a lot.

What changes are required with my 684A subset and should I swap the wires for the sidetone reduction?



Thanks a lot,
Gary

unbeldi

#20
Check the wiring in your subset, there aren't many wires anyways, and note what you have as it is. Better to verify first before modifying.  Then, simply follow the colored diagram and connect as it specifies.

The leads for the 2MF condenser are black and red, and the colors of the 0.5 MF ringing condenser may be yellow and brown red, or slate and yellow, but they probably are hard to identify and it depends on exactly which components your 684 uses.  You can do so probably best by tracing the wires, the capacitor that is already connected to the ringer should stay that way, one terminal goes to K.

I would first try it as drawn, and when everything works, you can experiment with that sidetone improvement in the note.  It won't be dramatic anyways, but you can judge later.

poplar1

#21
Changes from standard 684A wiring:

1. Move  red line wire from L1 to C. (Leave green line wire on L2-Y.)
2. Move red ringer wire to C
3. Move black capacitor wire from BK to L1

The red incoming line should be connected to C---and not L1.
The red ringer wire should connect to C--and not L1.
The red talk capacitor lead should connect to L1--and not C.

For the switch cord (harness) in the 51AL: It's easy to differentiate the red and brown-blue wires by their length. The red wire goes to R on the terminal block; the brown-blue wire goes to BB on the dial. (It was on Y of the dial in your photo). And the black wire goes to BK of the dial.

On the other end of the switch cord, the black wire is the longest, and goes directly to the transmitter. The red and brown-blue wires connect to R and BB of the hookswitch. YY on the hookswitch connects to the transmitter.

Edit: corrected changes as first discussed here :
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8785.0

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

#22
I verified my earlier re-wire to the color coded diagram and it looks correct to me but there is still no improvement to the operation of the phone as earlier described.  I know it's hard to tell what is what in the pictures with all of the cords crossing but I'm attaching two more pictures of the current state.

Poplar...thanks for the subset rewiring information.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

Quote from: gands-antiques on September 10, 2014, 01:11:00 PM
I verified my earlier re-wire to the color coded diagram and it looks correct to me but there is still no improvement to the operation of the phone as earlier described.  I know it's hard to tell what is what in the pictures with all of the cords crossing but I'm attaching two more pictures of the current state.

Poplar...in your previous note are your recommended changes relative to the color coded drawing or the first wiring positions?

Thanks,
Gary

The color-coded drawing is what you should have in the end.

gands-antiques

I believe I have the phone wired to the color coded diagram but it still has the same problems mentioned earlier.

* It will receive calls, reception is clear but transmission is very low and muffled.

* It gets a dial tone now, but when I try to dial out it pops with each number dialed and it does not make a successful call.


Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

#25
I don't see a wire jumper from the R terminal to the BB terminal on the dial.
I believe you have a 4H dial.
The configuration of the terminals is as follows:


W

                           R
     Y      BK     BB      |
                    |______|


This jumper is indicated (a tiny black line) in the diagram.  Just use any small piece of wire to connect BB and R.

It is necessary to shunt the transmitter during dialing to lower the resistance through the telephone.  The transmitter attenuates the central office battery too much to permit recognition of dial pulses.

And if the transmitter is working during dialing, it would pickup the sound of the dial through the metal shaft and perch and amplify it !

Now, since you are hearing it in the receiver means that there must be something else wrong too, because the dial off-normal contacts should have taken the receiver out of the circuit.   Let me check your pics again....

gands-antiques

I put a jumper wire between BB and R on the dial and now it still will receive calls but now it will not transmit and it still pops when each number is dialed and it will not dial out.

Thanks,
Gary

gands-antiques

#27
Could the reason for the popping sound be because I don't have the phone connected to a subset?

unbeldi

Quote from: gands-antiques on September 11, 2014, 05:51:13 AM
Could the reason for the popping sound be because I don't have the phone connected to a subset?

Hmm, I thought you had it connected to your 684A.
How do you have it connected exactly?

gands-antiques

I connected the desk cord to a module adapter and plugged it in to the modular socket. 

Based on the sounds of your question, it sounds like the phone must be connected to the subset before trying the phone.

I guess I should make the connection changes to the subset that Poplar recommended too?

Thanks,
Gary