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Converting a WE 102 Manual Service To a 102 Dial With a 4H Dial

Started by gands-antiques, June 01, 2013, 01:16:11 PM

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gands-antiques

Hello,

I just purchased a non-dial WE 102 and a 4H dial. I am looking for assistance getting the dial installed into the phone. I would like to hardwire the phone and use it without a subset if this is possible.

I have included several pictures.

Any assistance will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

Greg G.

Quote from: gands-antiques on June 01, 2013, 01:16:11 PM
Hello,

I just purchased a non-dial WE 102 and a 4H dial. I am looking for assistance getting the dial installed into the phone. I would like to hardwire the phone and use it without a subset if this is possible.

I have included several pictures.

Any assistance will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

Not possible.  You need a subset of some kind or you will damage the phone.  Either a mini-network, a 302 base, or the real deal subset. http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.0
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

gands-antiques

#2
Thank you.

I have a mini network and ringer that I got for my 202s but I didn't know if the mini network would fit in the smaller 102 cavity. I also have a WE 684A subset that I can use so if it won't work without a network I will use one of these.  

Is there anything special about installing the dial into a non-dial 102 or a special diagram?

Thanks,
Gary

poplar1

The mini-network fits better in the B-1 mounting (round) than it does in the D-1 (oval). The wiring is the same in either.

202 refers to the circuit, not the shape of the mounting, so either round or oval is a 202 unless wired to an older sidetone subset. In that case, either round or oval is a 102.

The Graybar catalog c. 1929 shows a B-1 Hand Set Mounting (no handset or cords). When the B-1 mounting is equipped with cords and handset, it was called a B1A for non-dial and B1B with a 2H dial.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

zaphod01

I'm interested in installing a 5H dial in a dial blank 202. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm using a 425B network in a 500 base as a subset.

I just got a fresh set of cloth cords from OPW.

Robert
"Things are never so bad they can't be made worse." - Humphrey Bogart

gands-antiques

#5
Thanks Poplar1...

Now I have several questions.....

- Were 2H dials always used by WE in B1Bs?

- Did WE ever install 4H dials in B1Bs?

- Will a 4H dial work in a B1B?

** I noticed in the diagrams/pictures in "www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.msg9309#msg9309"

that the B Mount Manual Service has two spring bars (like mine) and the B Mount Dial Service has only one spring bar on the left side of the diagram/pictures.

Do I need to do something (remove) the spring bar on the right side of the diagram/picture when I convert it to a dial service phone?


Thanks,
Gary

poplar1

Quote from: gands-antiques on June 01, 2013, 05:30:14 PM
Thanks Poplar1...

Now I have several questions.....

- Were 2H dials always used by WE in B1Bs?

>>>All the ones I have seen from 1928 to 1932 had 2HBs if never modified<<<

- Did WE ever install 4H dials in B1Bs?

>>>AFAIK, never originally. However, when they were refurbed, they could have had a 2H, 4H, 5H or 6A>>>

- Will a 4H dial work in a B1B?
>>>Yes<<<

** I noticed in the diagrams/pictures in "www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.msg9309#msg9309"

that the B Mount Manual Service has two spring bars (like mine) and the B Mount Dial Service has only one spring bar on the left side of the diagram/pictures.

<<<It is not necessary to have the additional spring. Most B-1 mountings had the extra spring, as did early D-1 mountings>>>

Do I need to do something (remove) the spring bar on the right side of the diagram/picture when I convert it to a dial service phone?

>>>No. The R terminal on that side is not needed if you are using a subset or 302 base as a subset, unless you are using a manual set. However, the R terminal will come in handy if you are using a mini-network.>>>


Thanks,
Gary
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

Thanks a lot poplar1.   I really appreciate all of the information. 

Gary

poplar1

Gary, it appears that your 4H dial was converted from a 2A. Notice that the original W terminal has been marked out and restamped R. There are probably 2 holes on the outer rim where the finger stop was originally attached. The 1941 date is probably when it was converted by changing the finger stop and adding the R contact spring.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Quote from: zaphod01 on June 01, 2013, 04:48:06 PM
I'm interested in installing a 5H dial in a dial blank 202. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm using a 425B network in a 500 base as a subset.

I just got a fresh set of cloth cords from OPW.

Robert

Robert, to use a 425B network, it is best to use a 5-conductor cord between it and the 202. If the cord you are using has only 4 wires, it would be better to use a 302 base instead, or just a 101A induction coil from a 302 along with a 2 MF capacitor.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

Thanks ....Is the conversion from a #2 dial to a #4 dial better or more desirable than a standard #4 dial.

Thanks,
Gary



Quote from: gands-antiques on June 01, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
Thanks a lot poplar1.   I really appreciate all of the information. 

Gary

poplar1

Quote from: gands-antiques on June 01, 2013, 09:15:02 PM
Thanks ....Is the conversion from a #2 dial to a #4 dial better or more desirable than a standard #4 dial.

Thanks,
Gary



Gary, I don't see any patent info below the terminals---does it have WESTERN ELECTRIC and Patent Dates (or Pat App For) on the rim? If so, it will look sharp on a phone where you can see the dates---either a round base 102/202 or a dial candlestick. In my opinion, a converted 2 is more desirable than a 4 if it has the outside dates, and maybe less desirable otherwise. This is totally subjective.

There was no need for a 4H with recessed finger stop until Dreyfus redesigned the B-1 mounting by changing the shape and recessing the dial. So, in general, a 2 would be older than a 4H, although there was an overlap of at least 2 years (1930-1932).

Electrically speaking, the circuit on a 2H, 4H, 5H, 6A or 2A converted to 4H is the same. When they changed the contacts on your dial, they also included twin (bifurcated) contacts for BB-W. This was an improvement that had been standardized both in the later 202 hook switches (1936-1939?) and on most 5H dials.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

poplar1...This is what is stamped on the rim...

WESTERN ELICTRIC

PAT IN USA  AUG 9 12  AUG 24 14

DES  MAY 7 18  SEPT 13 21

MADE IN USA

Thanks,
Gary

poplar1

I would definitely use that on a phone that calls for a non-recessed dial. Anyone agree or disagree?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

gands-antiques

I am planning on using it on a B1B 102.  Is that the correct application?

Thanks,
Gary