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NEW 1937 302!!!

Started by HarrySmith, January 15, 2014, 01:27:41 PM

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wds

#30
I had the seller take some measurements of the cradle and plungers, and the plungers are the smaller ones, and the cradle is wider than the normal 302.  Looks like this is a completely original and authentic II 1937 with the exception of the handset cord.  What are the chances of finding the correct handset cord?  Seller is posting better pictures.  So what would the correct value of this phone be?  I still think the $500 is high.
Dave

Kenton K

How much do ungrooved handsets usually fetch? I've been looking for one myself. I found one once on a D1.

-K


K1WI

#32
The ungrooved SOLID F1handsets in BLACK are very scarce. So scarce that replicas have been made !!  Less scarce are ungrooved F1s in brown that were made to be painted. These should not be confused with the F1* lightweight handsets used on later D1 and H1 bases. From what I have seen over the years the black ones are even rarer than the few that were made in ivory or other colors.
Andy F    K1WI

Kenton K

Quote from: K1WI on January 17, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
Notice how early H1 differs from later 1937 metal housings. Phone shown on e-bay IS earlier style. 

Is the round extrusion beneath the dial cavity present in the earlier or later styles? I have a late (Nov) H1 case which has the little round extrusion, so I am confused to how that is considered early. Unless they were still making early cases in Nov.

poplar1

Quote from: Kenton K on January 18, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: K1WI on January 17, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
Notice how early H1 differs from later 1937 metal housings. Phone shown on e-bay IS earlier style. 

Is the round extrusion beneath the dial cavity present in the earlier or later styles? I have a late (Nov) H1 case which has the little round extrusion, so I am confused to how that is considered early. Unless they were still making early cases in Nov.


Kenton, is your 11/37 housing with small plungers? There's supposed to be a cork inserted in the round part. There were some new-style housings (large plungers and higher ears) in late 1937 but I don't recall the month.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Doug Rose

David....I thought in the last quarter of 37 WE stopped with the short ears and small plungers, but still had H1 embossed over the mouse hole. The grated hookswitch cover disappeared in the 4th quarter as well.  I am not sure on the riveted feet, but I think they we discontinued earlier than  October 1937.  I had seen the cork stoppers hole empty before, not sure if they fell out or production was stopped.

WE still had its parts to use, so you see combinations. None are wrong. I have seen an E1 handset with a dated 37 4H dial (my favorite) and  then another had a 37 5H with the grooveless F1. ...Doug
Kidphone

Kenton K

Poplar1 and Doug...the phone is a 11/37 short eared, no vents, engraved H1 over mouse-hole, and screwed on feet. I think the cork fell out as there is some paint missing in the hole. What is the world is the cork for? stabilize ringer?

Ken

poplar1

I tried searching for the web page that shows dates for 302 variations but so far have not found it. Consistent with KK's 11-37 short ear set,  it does seem that 12-37 was the first month for the new larger plungers and higher ears. Also, Doug is right that various combinations can be found.

Persido's first 302 was 8-37 with matching dates 4H dial  and E1 handset; this one is 5-37 with matching 5-37 5H and grooveless handset which is probably matching date.

Perhaps because 202s were still being produced en masse in 1937, there was an abundance of E1s and 4Hs that year. In any case, grooveless black F1 handsets, and 5H dials dated 1937, seem to be less common.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Quote from: wds on January 18, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
I had the seller take some measurements of the cradle and plungers, and the plungers are the smaller ones, and the cradle is wider than the normal 302.  Looks like this is a completely original and authentic II 1937 with the exception of the handset cord.  What are the chances of finding the correct handset cord?  Seller is posting better pictures.  So what would the correct value of this phone be?  I still think the $500 is high.

I agree, except that I don't think the dial gasket should be black in 1937.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Kenton K

Quote from: poplar1 on January 19, 2014, 03:02:42 PM
I tried searching for the web page that shows dates for 302 variations but so far have not found it.

Is this the chart you were looking for?

http://vintagephone.com/HB302.htm

poplar1

Quote from: Kenton K on January 19, 2014, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: poplar1 on January 19, 2014, 03:02:42 PM
I tried searching for the web page that shows dates for 302 variations but so far have not found it.

Is this the chart you were looking for?

http://vintagephone.com/HB302.htm

Yes, that's it. Thanks.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

wds

Sold!  $499.99.  Don't know who the buyer was, but he must have really wanted it!
Dave

Kenton K

#42
Quote from: Kenton K on January 18, 2014, 01:24:13 PM
How much do ungrooved handsets usually fetch? I've been looking for one myself. I found one once on a D1.

-K


Quote from: K1WI on January 18, 2014, 01:39:34 PM
The ungrooved SOLID F1handsets in BLACK are very scarce. So scarce that replicas have been made !!  Less scarce are ungrooved F1s in brown that were made to be painted. These should not be confused with the F1* lightweight handsets used on later D1 and H1 bases. From what I have seen over the years the black ones are even rarer than the few that were made in ivory or other colors.


I wondered about the price of grooveless F1s. Well, 1 just sold on ebay for a whooping $293!!!! I guess I was one lucky guy to get a grooveless on a decently priced 202. ;)

EDIT: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Prototype-1937-Original-Western-Electric-Telephone-F1-Handset-/181310874989?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=0l3wQnqyz%252BeeCD8BX3rJQSUxy04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc



K

poplar1

Yes, you were lucky to get a grooveless F1 on a 202...this is part of the fun of getting refurbished phones with non-matching dates as opposed to all original, matching dates.

I asked an old timer who had retired from the Western Electric service center in Atlanta why they would sometimes put one cloth cord and one rubber cord on rebuilt phones. He said they used "whatever was available." His first job there was refurbing wood items like subsets. (The ones we find now often have a coat of black paint on top of the original finish.)

For future reference, the handset that just sold has a handle dated 3 08 37. Not all the parts have 1937 dates.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Sargeguy

#44
I just bought one of those grooveless handsets recently and paid about $100 more.  Mine had an early 1937 302 attached to it however.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409