Stubborn GPO dial screw

[cloyd]

I received a Northern Electric Uniphone, Model 1 yesterday that I got off of ebay.  I like to clean up phones as soon as I get them so I know what I have and because of the yuck that is on them and inside them.  This phone has a GPO dial #10 which is why I liked it.  In order to clean and lube the dial (which it needs), I have to get the center screw out before the finger wheel and dial plate can be removed.  This is a stubborn one!  So far, I have let it set with liquid wrench soaking for 24 hours.  I've tapped the screw smartly with a hammer and I have also done some cussing. 

What else should I try?  Heat?  If so, I would like some details.

Thank you,

Tina

[TelePlay]

Being a bit off topic (I can't help you), could you post a few photos of the phone as received? Always nice to "see" the problem.

And, good  luck on the stuck screw.

[Matilo Telephones]

Be carefull if you apply heat. The number ring is made of soft plastic and may melt. Or are there porcelain number rings on this type of dial too?

Is liquid wrench the same as penetrating oil? Because that is what I use.

[twocvbloke]

Give it some welly, it's probably not been removed in decades so needs a little more torque, just don't break it's head off...

[TelePlay]

As an FYI, I came across this list (I'm sure not totally inclusive) that sort of ranks penetrating oils. Liquid wrench ranked well in reducing torque needed to remove a frozen bolt.

The test nut was frozen onto a bolt by putting 3/4" and 1-1/8" nuts and bolts in salt and sulfuric acid solutions for one week before applying an oil and using a torque wrench.

Nothing (no penetrating oil) = 516 ft. lbs.
WD-40 = 238 ft. lbs.
PB Blaster = 214 ft. lbs.
Liquid Wrench = 127 ft. lbs.
Kano Kroil = 106 ft. lbs.
50/50 blend of ATF and Acetone = 50 ft. lbs

I'm sure there are others. Another site said 10-30% acetone in vegetable oil was about the same as Liquid Wrench in breaking rusted nuts free.

I found the list interesting and tried a few combinations of these with and without acetone on my lantern burner. Got to get some ATF and see if that breaks the burner loose.

[Jack Ryan]

Be carefull if you apply heat. The number ring is made of soft plastic and may melt. Or are there porcelain number rings on this type of dial too?

Plastic number plates are more recent. I would expect anything on a Uniphone to be porcelain on metal.

Jack

[rdelius]

here is what I used to do. Remove fingerstop,remove the nuts and other parts on the main shaft on the back of the dial. You can then pull up on the fingerwheel and the shaft would pull out.you might have better luck because you can clamp the main shaft so it wont move.It is a pain to reassemble though.For the headache you might get, send it to Hiltz

[cloyd]

Thank you all!  I really didn't expect much in the way of replies.

twocybloke,
I have given it all the "welly" that this old girl can apply without bending parts on the back of the dial in my vice-like grip and without stripping the straight slot on the screw head.

rdelius,
I think I would indeed send it to Steve Hiltz before I attempted disassembling it from the back.  Too ambitious for me.

Matilo and Jack,
I will get pictures posted ASAP.  The number plate is porcelain.

Teleplay,
As a science teacher I LOVE the controlled experiment to test the effectiveness of the penetrating oils.  I assumed that Liquid Wrench was THE product to use.  I just bought a gallon of acetone for the patination process on my copper mailbox project.  I don't usually have any at all.  I will run out to Walmart for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF).

Was it ATF or brake fluid that people use to soften rubber cords?  May as well have a bit of that on hand too.

I have gotten smarter from researching your replies!  Phones are fun!

Thank you!

Tina

[TelePlay]

Another site said 10-30% acetone in vegetable oil was about the same as Liquid Wrench in breaking rusted nuts free.

After giving up on my burner problem, I mixed up some 50%-50% Acetone/Cooking Oil. Mixes well. Went with half and half to get more penetration of the oil. Put some in the burner ring and over a half hour of prying and applying more A/O, got the burner to move. It's coming out slowly but it's only moved about 1/16" so far. Only 5/16" to go.

Didn't want to mess with ATF. I have some that I use to lubricate the motor bearing of a box fan. Works well but it's nasty stuff so tried the vegetable oil first. Seems to work much better than the PB Blaster I started with. Should have used Liquid Wrench but didn't have any. Kano oil was too expensive so didn't go there. If it comes out I'll post photos here and at the lantern topic.

[cloyd]

Wow!  That did the trick!  It also helped with the finger stop screws which were also rusted in place.  Why haven't I heard about this before?  Just how nasty is automatic transmission fluid?

Thank you!

Tina

[Matilo Telephones]

  Congratulations!

[TelePlay]

Just how nasty is automatic transmission fluid?

From use on my fan motor, I can tell you it is smelly, it sticks to everything, it is hard to remove from anything it touches, it can irritate skin (reactions or burns of some people) and it is hard to wash off your hands. Just getting it from the plastic bottle to where ever it is to be used can create stuff to be cleaned (funnels, cups, whatever) and since it is water unsoluable, it's like cleaning a liquid wax off the surfaces.

Other than that, it is a great lubricant so I can see where it would work well as a home brew penetrating oil. Acetone mixed completely with vegetable oil but from what I read, acetone does not mix with AFT so the mixture must be mixed well before each use. I think they were mixing it in a spray bottle that could direct the mixture to the rusted part. I used an eye dropped to carefully put a small amount right where I wanted it.

All that IMHO, of course. Others may differ.

[19and41]

I have a 25 year old can of Liquid Wrench that has served me well.  After I use it up, I am going to make up a penetrant I heard of on a firearm website I frequent: An ounce of automatic transmission fluid and 10 drops of peppermint oil.  If it doesn't work I'll at least have the sweet smell of success to console me.

[HarrySmith]

I don't know what kind of ATF you had but I have been working with the stuff since I was a kid, that was a long, long time ago! Maybe some of the new stuff that is supposed to last over 100,000 miles? I would recommend trying good old Dexron 2, GM requirement for many, many years. I first heard about the ATF/Acetone mix a few years back and tried it out on the shop when I was restoring a 1972 Chevy pickup, I was totally shocked at how well it worked!
Also it was brake fluid that was used to soften rubber cords. Again, stick to plain old stuff, DOT 2 or 3, not newer stuff. It will destroy paint and repeated exposure will damage skin so wear gloves.

[cloyd]

When I went to Walmart to buy ATF, I was met with many, many varieties!  I went with the cheapest reasoning that it would have the fewest additives.  I paid less than $3 for a quart.  For the acetone, I used what I bought at Lowe's in the paint department rather than fingernail polish remover for the same reason, fewer additives.

I am glad to hear that ATF is nasty due to reasons of inconvenience rather than it being a carcinogen.

There is nothing more frustrating than to be stopped dead in a project because of an impossible screw.

Thank you!

Tina