1500; G1 or G3?!?

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I received a black 1500 a few months ago with a base date of 3-66. The housing is dated 1969, and the handset is 1971. I'm trying to replace the handset, and I can't figure out if the hookswitch spring was accommodated for a Bakelite G1 or an ABS G3. I know that if the spring were designed for a G1, the G3 would sort of 'float' over the cradle if you placed the handset down gently enough. I tried this, and it doesn't really seem to float at all, but I can't be sure. Does anyone know if there's a way to find out which it was designed for?

I have two 1966 handsets I can use, and one is Bakelite, the other is ABS.

[poplar1]

It's true that very early 500s could cause problems if a G3 handset was installed afterward,  rather than a G1. At my grandmother's house, the "phone man" replaced a 302 upstairs with a rebuilt 500, probably about 1952 model, with the small font dial  and G3 handset. I recall that sometimes it would not hang up because the G3 handset was too light. (So another repairman had to "go behind" the first guy to replace the set again.)

However, up until late 1953 at the earliest, all 500s were black, so all had G1 handsets. So on new 500Ds, as they left the factory, a handset that was too light (G3) would not be an issue (even though they had resolved the same issue with color thermoplastic 302s when they started using hollow thermoplastic F1 handsets in 1949.)

My guess is that starting in 1953, they redesigned the hookswitch spring so that either a G1 or G3 handset would work. Otherwise, wouldn't there have to be a different stamp on the baseplate other than "C/D 500" and the date? If not marked differently, how would the women assembling the phones at the factory know which bases were intended for color sets (7C dial and G3 handset) and which were for black sets (7D and G1)?

In any case, it seems likely that all 1500s, 1554s, and Princess sets would have been equipped with G3 handsets, even the black ones, as originally furnished (new). We have seen some black 2500s with G1s, but these were remanufactured telephone-company owned sets that were reissued by the WE repair shops. You might also find a 7D dial -- albeit with a newer finger wheel -- on a remanufactured set in the late 70s, even though 7Ds were not made after ca. 1964.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem right; G1s were only designed for 500s and 554s, and G3s were for 1500s and 1554s? Was there an overlap in production for the two types, or a set date when they switched over? In that case, could mine have had a G1 originally? The set is only 2 months newer than the G1 I have.

[Jim Stettler]

I checked 10 ten button sets, they all had G3 handsets. the earliest was 8/64.

Jim S.

[poplar1]

I was giving my opinion that all 500s -- since they were all black -- had G1s from 1950-1953. Then, all color sets had G3s from the beginning (1953-4), but black 500s had G1s until sometime in the mid-60s. So by 1954, if not earlier, the hookswitch  had to have been redesigned to accommodate both the G1 and the G3....therefore, since 1500s were basically the same as 500s, their hookswitch spring would have been the standard one used from 1954, and so could accommodate either a light (G3) handset or a heavy (G1 handset). You already expermented and verified that either type handset will work on your 1500. The 1500 as far as I know used the same hookswitch assembly as the 500 type used since 1954 at the latest.

My reasoning is that they would not have made two different types of springs, starting in 1954, because there doesn't seem to be any difference in the marking on the bottom of a color 500 from 1956 (with G3) and the marking of a black 500 from 1956 (with G1).

Of course, none of this proves or disproves whether or not 1500Ds ever had G1s. I just looked at all the 1500 and 1554 BSPs I could find in the library, and most say "G3AR handset" -- with one exception:

http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2835-502-510-431-i5-telephone-sets-1500d-connections-tl

Figure 1 shows a 1500D with 25A3 dial -- and a "G1A or G3A handset."
Figure 2 shows a 1500D with 25W3 dial -- and a "G3A handset."

[poplar1]

I checked 10 ten button sets, they all had G3 handsets. the earliest was 8/64.

Jim S.

Are any of your 10 button sets black, with matching dates?

[Jim Stettler]

Are any of your 10 button sets black, with matching dates?

no black, I have  pink, blue, yellow, white 2 green and 4 beige. I did not verify matching dates,   ISTR that they are pretty much original. 1 was refurbed in '67. and  a '66 set had the # and date blacked out and restamped.

  I do have some other 10 button sets that are "C" stock I didn't check those.

I think it is safe to assume that since the 1500 and 1554 were the newest "standard" of telephone, that they were designed to use the lighter handset.

JMO,
Jim S.

[poplar1]

no black, I have  pink, blue, yellow, white 2 green and 4 beige. I did not verify matching dates,   ISTR that they are pretty much original. 1 was refurbed in '67. and  a '66 set had the # and date blacked out and restamped.

  I do have some other 10 button sets that are "C" stock I didn't check those.

I think it is safe to assume that since the 1500 and 1554 were the newest "standard" of telephone, that they were designed to use the lighter handset.

JMO,
Jim S.

I agree that probably all new 1500s, 1554s and Princess sets had G3s. Of course, all color sets from 1954-1971 had G3s, so the only question is about the black sets.

There was a monthly surcharge for a Touch-Tone line, regardless of how many or what type sets were being leased. The trade-off, if you could call it that, was that there was  no extra charge for color, unlike the 500s and 554s, which had a one-time charge for color.  So whether or not black was a "promoted" color choice, most customers probably chose a different color for their Touch-Tone sets, since they didn't have to pay the one-time color charge. Perhaps that's why we don't find many black 1500Ds.

Likewise, while the Princess and Trimline carried both one-time initial charges and monthly surcharges, there was no extra charge for color. The extra monthly charges for having a Princess or Trimline applied whether rotary or Touch-tone sets were leased.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

My point is, it could have had a G1 if the black G3 wasn't in production yet.

What is the earliest black G3 anyone knows of? Is it older that March 1966?

[JimH]

My point is, it could have had a G1 if the black G3 wasn't in production yet.

What is the earliest black G3 anyone knows of? Is it older that March 1966?

I have an "Imperial" Princess 10 button with a black G3 handset dated "64".  My Black Princess rotary from 1963 has a G1 handset. 

[poplar1]

According to Paul F.'s site, the black G3 handsets were phased in between 1962 and 1965 for 500Ds.

We got a bunch of C-stock black 500s that had been refurbished in late 1964. About half had new G3 handsets, and the other half had buffed G1s. Just saying that black G3s were definitely available by November, 1964.

[andre_janew]

I think that by 1966, all black handsets should've been G-3.

[Dave F]

I have a prototype black WE 10-button Touchtone phone from 1962.  It has a factory-installed G1 handset.  However, I have never seen a regular production black 1500 with anything other than a G3.

DF