Rotary Styleline won't ring

[bob833]

Hi guys and girls, I picked up a a phone which I think is a styleline 981. It dials out, receives but doesn't ring. It should be simple, but not for me. I downloaded the wiring diagram but can't figure it out. The red coming in goes down to the cap thru the coils and back out the other red. Then it goes to # 10 terminal which connects to the yellow, which I don't use. Where should I jump that red at #10 to to make it ring. Any what's up with that orange wire #6 terminal, it goes to nothing, should I connect to there?  Any help would be appreciated. I hope the picture works. 
Oh, and also, I can make it ring with an old magneto across the red going to the cap and the other red coming out.

[AE_Collector]

Move that red from the ringer off of 9 (leaving just the yellow there) and put the red with the capacitor lead that is on 6(?) all by itself at the middle of the 5 terminals across the bottom.

The Styleline handsets whether rotary or touch call are model 980. A desk base is model 981 and a wall base a model 982. Thus the most logical thing to do is to call it a 981 if it is a desk phone or a 982 if a wall phone.

Good to find another AE Collector around here!

Terrry

[bob833]

The cap leg on the left (terminal 16)  isn't by itself, it has a black wire that leads to the top of the coil, I uploaded another picture to show that wire. It puts the cap in series with the bell coil, then the red comes out of the bottom of the coil. I tried jumping that red wire from terminal 9 to almost all terminals, even the green coming in.

[bob833]

UPDATE:
I took a ringer with the capacitor out of an AE80 and hooked it up basically the same way as the old wiring except the lead leaving the ring coils went to the green wire and it rung!!  Now to find out why the ringer in the styleline is giving me trouble. Anybody wanna buy a red styleline that doesn't ring? Maybe you can get it to ring. 

[poplar1]

Since the ringer in the Styleline calls for a .08 uF capacitor, this indicates that it is a frequency-selective ringer for a party line. It is designed NOT to ring on standard ringing current of 20 hertz.

Rather, it was supposed to ring only when the correct frequency was sent from the central office. Each party (or in the case of divided ringing, two parties) on the line had its own frequency, so that they would not be disturbed when the call was for another party.

Depending on what frequency is marked on the ringer (can't see it in your photo), it may be possible to get it to ring by using a larger capacitor, for example 0.7 uF. That may be the approximate value of the capacitor in your AE 80. But in any case, it's doing what it's supposed to do: NOT ring on a standard line.

[AE_Collector]

I think the black ringer lead is the centre tap for party identification. The red lead should be on 16 without the capacitor, not the black lead. Where is the ringers green lead located? Putting it on 8 should complete the circuit from 10 through cap to 16 through the ringer to 8.

Keep in mind that even with it connected properly these ringers are very temperamental. You might have to put your finger lightly in the armature when it should be ringing to see if you can feel any slight movement. If so, it is adjustment time.

Terry

[twocvbloke]

Of course one option for selective ringing is something like a linksys PAP2T where you can specify a custom ringer frequency in its settings, though it does limit the phone's usage to VoIP services...

[AE_Collector]

I have Never seen or heard of an AE single gong ringer that was other than a straight line ringer so My money is on it being a SL ringer.

Terry

[poplar1]

I have Never seen or heard of an AE single gong ringer that was other than a straight line ringer so My money is on it being a SL ringer.

Terry

Terry,
Have you found any SL ringers that will work with a 0.08 uF capacitor?
Stub can verify that a bunch of the Stylelines Sonny bought from R&S in NC have frequency-selective ringers.
They were made by ITT, and may require an adaptor in order to mount them in Stylelines.

[unbeldi]

If you look at AE or ITT specifications for ringing capacitors, you will always find that a value of 0.08 µF was used only on ringers with frequencies of 50 to 67 Hz.

A capacitance of 0.08 µF has an impedance of almost 100,000 Ω at a frequency of 20 Hz. That is way too high to provide enough current at that frequency.   At 50 Hz, the impedance drops to ca. 40 kΩ, and at 67 Hz it is down to 30 kΩ.
In comparison, a straight line ringer at 20 Hz uses a ~0.5 µF value, which is an impedance of almost 16 kΩ.

Given a minimum ringing voltage of 40 VAC per regulation, the 100,000 Ω cap only provides 0.4 mA of current to operate the ringer. Surely not enough for a mechanical ringer.  For a small and light ringer it should be more like in the single digit mA, perhaps 1 or 2 mA.   A large C4A style ringer requires something like 4 to 10 mA (at ~70 V).

[AE_Collector]

Okay, the thought that the ringer might not be an AE never crossed my mind! And I can't see a green lead coming off of it either which an AE would have. So you could be on to something. I think it's method of mounting needs to be checked if the ITT ringers mounded differently. It should be easy and inexpensive to obtain an AE replacement SL ringer for it but once you pay for the ringer and shipping the Styleline may not be worth it. At least it is Candy Apple Red making it a more desirable color.  I have extra ringers here.

Terry

[bob833]

Did a little more playing. The ringer is a 66cps ringer, guess I am not going get this one to ring. I put in a 42 cps ringer and got it to ring but not very loudly. Anyone know what size capacitor would shake this ringer with a little more authority?

[RotoTech99]

From: RotoTech99:

The capacitor used for bridged, straight-line ringing to my knowledge is a .47 uF, 250VDC capacitor. This capacitor is also used with the Type 48 AE ringer.

It should provide the power necessary for a clear distinct ring from the AE 46/AE 46A* ringers, as used in AE Starlites and Styleline sets.

Something else to take into consideration is the clapper to gong clearance, and the bias spring setting...

In general, if the gong is rotated where the clapper is closer to the gong, with a smaller gap between them, you'll get a softer ring sound. If the clapper to gong gap is a bit larger, you'll get a higher ring sound, but if the gap too large, you might get a intermittent ring sound, or just a buzzer sound made by the ringer clapper arm vibrating in motion.

Depending upon the bias setting; high or low, the ringer sound will vary as well... It might ring strongly on low bias, or not as strongly on low bias, The same is true for a high bias setting.

Once you have the right capacitor in place, experiment and see what the ringer does; once you have it where it is ringing as you prefer, you have it.

Something to remember is the ringer in the Styleline is a single gong ringer, and will sound similar to a Princess  WE "M1A",
or ITT 148 ringer which makes a clear but not overly loud ring suited best to indoor environment(s).

NOTE: The AE 46A is the early version of the AE 46 single gong ringer. The AE 46 is a redesign of it, simplifying the design, and improving it a bit.

Both can be used for straight line bridged ringing or frequency ringing; For straight line ringing, use the RED and GREEN leads, the black and blue ones can be insulated and folded under the ringer as they aren't used in straight line ringing.

ALSO: If your ringer is a ITT frequency ringer, you can replace it with an ITT 148BA straight line ringer; it has the same mounting points as the ITT frequency ringer, and will fit the adapter frame the ITT frequency ringer is on. You will still need a .47 uF, 250 VDC capacitor to have the ITT 148 ring properly.

I assumed your ringer was an AE 46 or 46A for which I apologize.

Best Regards,
RotoTech99

[stub]

bob833,
            Here's a pic of the ITT148 ringer and adapter plate for use in the AE Styleline. Hope this helps.   stub


     left click on pic to enlarge