Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Auction Talk => Topic started by: twocvbloke on August 29, 2017, 12:10:02 PM

Title: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 29, 2017, 12:10:02 PM
Think the last phone I got was that cheapened 2500 motel phone, so, another "Been a while" purchase!!  ;D

But, anyway, spotted this the other night, noticed the price was low, and noted the one picture showing a seemingly straight-cord handset cable, so I put it in my watch list expecting the bids to go wild, but they didn't, and I won it with one bid of £6 this afternoon (with P&P, it'll be a total of £9.99)!!  ;D

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391871726903

Can't wait to see what it is and its age, only one lone photo that's no bigger than the screenshot below, so, just need to wait for it to arrive... :)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: HarrySmith on August 29, 2017, 12:26:06 PM
Cool! Great buy! Looks like an early one, stright cord, metal dial and what appears to be a bakelite G-1 handset. I would guess early 50's. Congrats. These are not easy to find on that side of the pond!
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: ThePillenwerfer on August 29, 2017, 12:29:40 PM
I spied that as well and was surprised at the low starting price.  It made less that the far more common British 746s do.  Well done.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 29, 2017, 01:08:27 PM
I was surprised that nobody else bid on it, I guess it's just an example of poor title & description that made it a winner for me, no mention of Western Electric, Bell System or 500, so win-win for me... :)

Can't wait to get it though, it'll probably be older than my red WE500 (March 1956 I think that one is)... :)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: andre_janew on August 29, 2017, 06:25:35 PM
It probably won't take much to get it working.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: AL_as_needed on August 29, 2017, 06:29:50 PM
That is an excellent find, FOTM item for sure.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 29, 2017, 09:19:06 PM
Quote from: andre_janew on August 29, 2017, 06:25:35 PM
It probably won't take much to get it working.

Just a line cable and the ringer wire moving from G to L2 most likely, simple phones after all... :)

Quote from: AL_as_needed on August 29, 2017, 06:29:50 PM
That is an excellent find, FOTM item for sure.

I'd not thought of that actually, just got to wait and see if it has any more surprises to reveal...  ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: LarryInMichigan on August 30, 2017, 07:43:20 AM
You can't go too far wrong for that price.  There might have been more bids if the seller had bothered to post more pictures or stated something substantial about the item and its condition.

Nice Catch

Larry
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 30, 2017, 12:31:13 PM
Thanks, it's definitely a case of luck (good for me, not so much the seller), hopefully it's in decent enough shape, it'll sit nicely with my two other black 500s... :)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: HarrySmith on August 30, 2017, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on August 30, 2017, 07:43:20 AM
You can't go too far wrong for that price.  There might have been more bids if the seller had bothered to post more pictures or stated something substantial about the item and its condition.

Nice Catch

Larry

I never understand that about eBay sellers. Why would you not want to get the most for your item? I have sold a lot of stuff on eBay, not just phones. I take as many pictures as I can, I research the item and provide information in my description. I have had crystal or porcelain items up for sale and others have the same items listed at the same time with poor photos & descriptions. I asked more for mine and mine sold, thiers did not. Common sense. I guess common sense is not so common anymore.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 30, 2017, 02:12:23 PM
Common sense has been bred out of people over the years, sadly, resulting in a lot of things today that make me want to bang my head on a bed of nails because there's no logic behind what some do... :o

But there are times that the lack of other people having common sense can be useful... ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: LarryInMichigan on August 30, 2017, 05:51:10 PM
At least you were able to tell that the item was a black WE 500 with a straight handset cord.  Some ebay listings have images which are so small and/or blurry, that one can scarcely determine what the seller is actually trying to sell.  I have won a few auctions for really nice items with few bids because the pictures were so bad that nobody could see how nice the item actually was.

Let us know about the phone once it arrives.


Larry
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 30, 2017, 07:26:17 PM
Yeah, it was lucky I actually looked as there were a few 500s on ebay, but skipped them as they seemed unremarkable, it's just that something seemed odd about that one so I stuck it in my watch list to look at later, and of course I ended up seeing the straight cord in the one lone picture, so, once the time came I bid on it and that's that... :)

I'm just hoping it's not a home bodge-job or something...  ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: 19and41 on August 31, 2017, 03:13:20 PM
Nice phone and a nice price!
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 31, 2017, 07:01:42 PM
Comparing pictures of 530x phones, I'm not sure it's a 5302, the gap between the top of the dial and the hook is longer on this than a 5302 which is more 500 than 5302, did get me wondering enough though to investigate... :)

This particular post having a picture being of a similar angle:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3852.msg148114#msg148114

Hopefully here tomorrow or Saturday, fingers crossed...  ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: Doug Rose on August 31, 2017, 08:17:22 PM
I thought is was a 500 set, but with the one straight down pic, it is tough to tell....my vote is 500....of course, I've never been wrong.  ;D......Doug
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: HarrySmith on August 31, 2017, 08:21:12 PM
Quote from: Doug Rose on August 31, 2017, 08:17:22 PM
I thought is was a 500 set, but with the one straight down pic, it is tough to tell....my vote is 500....of course, I've never been wrong.  ;D......Doug

I went back to check the picture. Closer investigation is not revealing anything more to me but I also vote for 500.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 31, 2017, 08:23:58 PM
If it was a 5302 I'd still be happy, I've kept my eye out for them over here for a few years, and either missed them due to lack of funds, or just not found them, but looking at pictures of 5302s, I do believe it's a 500, but it'll be confirmed soon, I hope...  ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: HarrySmith on August 31, 2017, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: twocvbloke on August 31, 2017, 08:23:58 PM
If it was a 5302 I'd still be happy, I've kept my eye out for them over here for a few years, and either missed them due to lack of funds, or just not found them, but looking at pictures of 5302s, I do believe it's a 500, but it'll be confirmed soon, I hope...  ;D

I would imagine the 5302 is harder to get than the 500 over there, so that would be an even better deal!
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: Jim Stettler on August 31, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
Quote from: twocvbloke on August 31, 2017, 07:01:42 PM
Comparing pictures of 530x phones, I'm not sure it's a 5302, the gap between the top of the dial and the hook is longer on this than a 5302 which is more 500 than 5302, did get me wondering enough though to investigate... :)

This particular post having a picture being of a similar angle:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3852.msg148114#msg148114

Hopefully here tomorrow or Saturday, fingers crossed...  ;D

The phone picture looks like a 5302, I looked at the comparison photo and I agree it is probably a 500.
Jim S.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on August 31, 2017, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on August 31, 2017, 10:02:52 PM
I would imagine the 5302 is harder to get than the 500 over there, so that would be an even better deal!

Yep, like I say, I've seen a few 5302s over here, but either didn't have the funds for them, or they sold for bigger money than I was willing to go up to...  :-\

Quote from: Jim S. on August 31, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
The phone picture looks like a 5302, I looked at the comparison photo and I agree it is probably a 500.
Jim S.

I understood what you meant as the back end of the phone isn't visible, which kind of makes it look like it's shorter in the rear which is indicative of being a 5302, but the spacing between dial & hook also gives it away, it's much narrower on the 5302... :)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: Dan/Panther on September 01, 2017, 11:48:47 AM
I agree, 500.
How much would it cost to ship from The U.S. To Britain ?

D/P
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 12:18:06 PM
Quote from: Dan/Panther on September 01, 2017, 11:48:47 AM.
How much would it cost to ship from The U.S. To Britain ?

D/P

These days? Too much, I had to turn down a modular WE554 from a friend in Texas as the cost of shipping by USPS was far more than the phone's value, even though the phone was free, it's just the USPS to blame... :(
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 01:26:46 PM
Definitely a 500, it's arrived, and it's base is dated as 10/54, G1 handset, receiver & transmitter also 10/54 (rx. 10-19-54, tx. 10-54-19 (odd format!)), haven't opened up the base as I've just been given a HP printer too, so a bit distracted by that!!

Though so far, it's in desperate need of a clean, the dial needs help (slow to return, easy to fix though), and the hookswitch buttons seem to be sticky, but as I say, haven't opened it up as yet, and there's definitely a distinct smell of Tenite about it, so seems very original so far... :)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: HarrySmith on September 01, 2017, 01:35:57 PM
Cool! Sounds like it will probably be all original. If the elements have not been changed out that usually indicates nothing else has. Congrats! Is the G-1 bakelite? Don't forget pictures once you open it up!
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 01:42:34 PM
The G1's definitely bakelite, nice and heavy like my other cobbled-together 500 (parts from my modular in my profile pic to the left there, and parts from a hard-wired sent over from Texas), the cable's feeling a bit on the stiff side, and interestingly, there's still a line cable attached, but the ends seem to have lost all insulation (and the spade terminals) from the conductors, seems the insulation disintegrated sadly... :-\
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 04:23:57 PM
So, some oddities, the shell has a date-stamp of "4 13 51 2", the hookswitch buttons are not original, they look like a home bodge-job using a much more modern plastic made form hollow tubes with one end heated (looks burned) and flattened to fit, which is most likely why the hookswitch was sticking as they don't really fit properly...

Overall, the phone's a bit rusty, I think it's been stored damp for a number of years, the plastics have some mould spots to it inside, the baseplate has a coating of "patina" as some call it, and everything's just dirty overall, but, everything is there, the handset cable seems to have come unhooked from the baseplate and over the years it's twisted up behind the dial, and the insulation of which has become cracked and quite brittle, and I daren't try to unravel it for fear of ruining it all and shorting things out, I've not even tested the phone yet so don't know if it even works!!

Still not taken pictures yet, made a bit of a mess with the HP printer earlier so need to put that away before I do any pictures!! ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 07:15:52 PM
Right, pictures time!!
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 07:20:03 PM
2nd lot of pics, I'll note here that two of the three screws that hold the dial on its bracket are missing, so, someone's been in there before for sure!!!

The last one's just from my testing that HP printer's Copier function (no ink, so the copy came out blank!) and just had to sit something on the scanner!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: ..... on September 01, 2017, 07:44:45 PM
Very nice phone and a great score.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: HarrySmith on September 01, 2017, 08:12:58 PM
Nice phone! Almost completely dates matching! What are the dates on the cords? Those are some really strange plungers.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 01, 2017, 08:47:28 PM
Quote from: HarrySmith on September 01, 2017, 08:12:58 PM
Nice phone! Almost completely dates matching! What are the dates on the cords? Those are some really strange plungers.

They're both stamped "54", so match the phone... :)

As for the plungers, like I say I think someone bodged those together out of some other plastic pieces, don't know why, but, that's a part of it's history I guess... :)

On a side note, I noticed that one side of the shell seems to have bulged out, presumably where it hadn't been refitted correctly, haven't a clue how I'd go about fixing that at the moment, it's probably been that way for many years...
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: 19and41 on September 01, 2017, 10:26:17 PM
Those plungers ought to be easy to find.  My birthday phone '56 base, '54 shell, uses black conventional plungers.  That phone's going to look nice.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: andy1702 on September 02, 2017, 03:31:42 PM
That's a nice phone. I guess I must have misse that one!  ;D I found three similar phones a few months back. http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18475.0 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18475.0)

Also, just for the record, here's a video of how to fit a UK line cord to a 500. As far as I'm aware there's no need to use a resistor (as some suggest) because these are rated REN 1 anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F73oMJunPHY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F73oMJunPHY)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 02, 2017, 05:00:20 PM
Yeah, I've got a couple phones wired for use on UK lines, I just connect the A & B to L1 & L2 and of course move the black ringer wire to L1, just my reference to keep it as a 2-wire phone... :)

I'll note that your video shows that the phone you wired up was also wired for 2-wire as the black ringer wire was on L1 already, so the blue Bell wire on G was basically just terminating it to an empty terminal, as G is just an external strap terminal as far as I'm aware and doesn't connect to anything inside, A and K internally have the capacitor (I think it's 1.8uF, just like GPO 700 series phones) which is wired across one of the ringer coils (there's usually two coils in these type ringers, one small one, one large, but I forget which wires are for what!), which is then wired in series with the other coil making it a 4kOhm(ish) coil with an inline ringing capacitor... :)
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: ThePillenwerfer on September 02, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
I quite agree about there being no need for a resistor as the 500's bell coils add-up to 3650Ω.  The capacitor is, however, 0.45µF or at least it is on the diagram I found.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 02, 2017, 06:34:43 PM
You're probably right there, I haven't looked at the circuit diagram for a 425B for a while, so probably a lot lower than 1.8uF!! ;D

Infact, I just opened my Cortelco 2554, and it's ringing capacitor is 0.47uF, so, yeah, not 1.8!! ;D
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: andy1702 on September 04, 2017, 03:02:48 PM
Quote from: twocvbloke on September 02, 2017, 05:00:20 PM
I'll note that your video shows that the phone you wired up was also wired for 2-wire as the black ringer wire was on L1 already, so the blue Bell wire on G was basically just terminating it to an empty terminal, as G is just an external strap terminal as far as I'm aware and doesn't connect to anything inside, A and K internally have the capacitor (I think it's 1.8uF, just like GPO 700 series phones) which is wired across one of the ringer coils (there's usually two coils in these type ringers, one small one, one large, but I forget which wires are for what!), which is then wired in series with the other coil making it a 4kOhm(ish) coil with an inline ringing capacitor... :)

Well spotted! I gues sthat was a half deliberate mistake on my part. What I actually did was test the wiring on one of the other phones (all three came together) which had the black wire on G and didn't ring when I left off the blue connection. Then I used a second phone for the video production, which as you rightly say, already seems to have had the black wire moved.

I don't really see as it matters which way you do it. The only thing I will say is maybe it's best to use the cap in the wall socket if it's an old phone where the internal cap might be a bit dodgy. Having said that, I don't recall seeing a phone with a cap in it that's so bad it doesn't work as it should.

Andy.
Title: Re: Surprisingly cheap straight-corded handset WE 500...
Post by: twocvbloke on September 04, 2017, 05:02:03 PM
Technically speaking, with Bell wire on G with the black ringer wire, the capacitor built into the network is still in circuit (through A and K), so you have both the Master socket cap and the built-in one running at the same time, you could just move one of the wires on A or K and join them together, but, like I say, I just wire it up as 2-wire, given BT-Openreach (or whatever they are now) keep installing master sockets and faceplates that cut out or just aren't fitted with a bell capacitor, it makes it a lot easier to make a universal telephone... :)