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#41
General Discussion / Re: Can regular 4-conductor te...
Last post by Robert Gift - April 11, 2024, 01:16:02 PMQuote from: 5415551212 on April 11, 2024, 12:34:40 PMIt does not need to be shielded, it does need to be UL listed for in wall use.Thank you. I am not a collector becauseverything is used. But fun to also have old telephones.
My advice for all telephone collectors is to look for spools of surplus 'Cat3' cable and snatch them up. ...
This house has Cat5 4-pair outlets, but I have the old 4-conductor almond jacket house wire someone discarded.
Would building code would allow running telephone wire through the same holes as PVC plumbing vent pipes?
#42
General Discussion / Re: Can regular 4-conductor te...
Last post by 5415551212 - April 11, 2024, 12:34:40 PMIt does not need to be shielded, it does need to be UL listed for in wall use.
My advice for all telephone collectors is to look for spools of surplus 'Cat3' cable and snatch them up. I have noticed allot of collectors dont have their collections wired up to anything.
Ask your local electrician if he has any old spools of office telephone cable?
Don't install the 'flat' stuff, you want actual phone cable that is UL listed for Class 2 installation in walls per the National Electrical Code.
Nobody installs category 3 new in 2024, and it has all the color codes we phone guys are used to.
Institutions would stock this stuff for their maintenance dept. so Robert check with the hospitals you deliver for if they have any redundant phone stuff.
There is tons of this stuff out there looking for a home, but ending up in the landfill (it cant even be melted for the copper from what I am told).
If you have a local 'Habitat for humanity restore' (a thrift store of surplus building materials in the US) check with them.
If your not into key phones the best is a 6 or 12 pair cat3. It seems like alot of pairs but you wont regret it trust me, its a job to install phone cable correctly so install extra pairs!
6 pairs gives you options for example a home interphone or dial light, a key intercom line, 12 pairs would be great for a telephone display shelf with a PBX in the basement etc.
People may even pay you to take this stuff away since its basically old garbage to them taking up room.
My advice for all telephone collectors is to look for spools of surplus 'Cat3' cable and snatch them up. I have noticed allot of collectors dont have their collections wired up to anything.
Ask your local electrician if he has any old spools of office telephone cable?
Don't install the 'flat' stuff, you want actual phone cable that is UL listed for Class 2 installation in walls per the National Electrical Code.
Nobody installs category 3 new in 2024, and it has all the color codes we phone guys are used to.
Institutions would stock this stuff for their maintenance dept. so Robert check with the hospitals you deliver for if they have any redundant phone stuff.
There is tons of this stuff out there looking for a home, but ending up in the landfill (it cant even be melted for the copper from what I am told).
If you have a local 'Habitat for humanity restore' (a thrift store of surplus building materials in the US) check with them.
If your not into key phones the best is a 6 or 12 pair cat3. It seems like alot of pairs but you wont regret it trust me, its a job to install phone cable correctly so install extra pairs!
6 pairs gives you options for example a home interphone or dial light, a key intercom line, 12 pairs would be great for a telephone display shelf with a PBX in the basement etc.
People may even pay you to take this stuff away since its basically old garbage to them taking up room.
#43
General Discussion / Re: When called, is our line f...
Last post by Robert Gift - April 11, 2024, 12:13:35 PMQuote from: 5415551212 on April 08, 2024, 10:37:03 PMHere is a sonic alert on ebay:Nice! Thank you.
This probably senses ring voltage and sends 120 VAC to a table lamp.
My device clicked enabling me to answer the telephone before it rang!
Wonder if I could make it sense something when the line is connected to the telephone ring voltage buss - if that is what happens.
I have contacted them! Thank you.
#44
General Discussion / Can regular 4-conductor teleph...
Last post by Robert Gift - April 11, 2024, 11:38:12 AMOr should it be a shielded wire - if such exists?
Would like to place a lighted Princess® telephone on the second floor bathroom's toiletank.
The telephone could easily reached from the shower, (hospitals often call when I am showering), and the Princess telephone could nightlight the dark windowless interior bathroom.
A terminal box behind the toilet may be reached by the cabe descending along the toilet's PVC vent pipe going up through the roof.
Thank you.
Would like to place a lighted Princess® telephone on the second floor bathroom's toiletank.
The telephone could easily reached from the shower, (hospitals often call when I am showering), and the Princess telephone could nightlight the dark windowless interior bathroom.
A terminal box behind the toilet may be reached by the cabe descending along the toilet's PVC vent pipe going up through the roof.
Thank you.
#45
Technical "Stuff" / Re: Question about hookswitch ...
Last post by MaximRecoil - April 11, 2024, 11:12:08 AMI have a new plan to incorporate 3 hook switches instead of just 2, the same as a stock WE 500/2500/etc., phone has (1 for L1, 1 for L2, and 1 to mute the receiver).
That clear plastic sleeve that can be seen in the picture I posted in reply #2, is like a camshaft in an engine, except it only has one cam lobe to actuate one microswitch. If I made another cam lobe out of e.g., 1/4" thick plexiglass, and glued it in place, it could actuate two microswitches at the same time. And if I made a third cam lobe, it could actuate 3 microswitches at the same time.
The third lobe will need to be offset from the first two, so that it actuates its microswitch slightly earlier/later than the L1 and L2 microswitches get actuated, which will allow for muting of the receiver just before L1 and L2 get opened (i.e., when going on-hook), and unmuting of the receiver just after L1 and L2 get closed (when going off-hook), the same way that a stock WE phone works. The third microswitch will also have to be wired opposite of the other two, i.e., wired as normally-closed instead of normally-open.
That's the plan anyway. We'll see how it works out in reality. I've already confirmed that there's enough room in there to stack 3 microswitches together, and 1/4" is the exact width of each microswitch, so 1/4" thick plexiglass will make cam lobes that are the right width.
It will look something like this:
That clear plastic sleeve that can be seen in the picture I posted in reply #2, is like a camshaft in an engine, except it only has one cam lobe to actuate one microswitch. If I made another cam lobe out of e.g., 1/4" thick plexiglass, and glued it in place, it could actuate two microswitches at the same time. And if I made a third cam lobe, it could actuate 3 microswitches at the same time.
The third lobe will need to be offset from the first two, so that it actuates its microswitch slightly earlier/later than the L1 and L2 microswitches get actuated, which will allow for muting of the receiver just before L1 and L2 get opened (i.e., when going on-hook), and unmuting of the receiver just after L1 and L2 get closed (when going off-hook), the same way that a stock WE phone works. The third microswitch will also have to be wired opposite of the other two, i.e., wired as normally-closed instead of normally-open.
That's the plan anyway. We'll see how it works out in reality. I've already confirmed that there's enough room in there to stack 3 microswitches together, and 1/4" is the exact width of each microswitch, so 1/4" thick plexiglass will make cam lobes that are the right width.
It will look something like this:
#46
General Discussion / Re: No Caller ID when I plug t...
Last post by Robert Gift - April 11, 2024, 11:09:25 AMQuote from: 5415551212 on April 08, 2024, 11:02:08 PMClever so presumably if your 9VAC dial light is on line 2,Thank you.
you set the second persons phone line to "Line 3" [White/Blue] pair or the (wt/green - green pair in new wiring).
Technically I think a 3 line jack is a RJ25.
That was at theiresidence.
We only have one line. Wanto put pure DC for the Princess® telephone lamps so that I do not induce 60 Hz hum into the line. On some telephones we have a slight hum.
#47
For Sale / FOR SALE: Early 2500’s
Last post by Vern P - April 11, 2024, 01:22:14 AMAny interest in early WE 2500's with the back painted face plate ?
Have pink, red, green, beige, ivory. Maybe others.
These used to be quite collectible. Traded a set to the old JKL, along with some other telephones. But that is all gone now.
Have pink, red, green, beige, ivory. Maybe others.
These used to be quite collectible. Traded a set to the old JKL, along with some other telephones. But that is all gone now.
#48
All Other Pay Telephones / Re: Protel 8000 spyware
Last post by MaximRecoil - April 10, 2024, 04:39:36 PMBefore last night, the only way I could ever tell it was sending DTMF tones was by hearing it through an extension phone connected to the same phone line. The first time I ever heard it dialing was by pure chance, as I happened to be talking on the phone (an extension phone) at the time. I heard the tones, but it couldn't complete a call because I was already on a call. DTMF tones sent while you're already on a call do nothing at the central office.
For years I never knew if it was actually completing a call or calls every night or what it was doing. It wasn't until recently that I happened to pick up the handset of an extension phone just as the payphone had started sending tones, so that was the first time I heard it complete a call (which it was able to do because I wasn't already on a call).
Yesterday, a slick telephone recording interface device arrived in the mail (JK Audio Inline Patch). I've had a device for recording calls for years (which I connected to an extension phone to record the call that I attached to my first post in this thread), but it's a modular device that connects to the handset cord, so it's useless for trying to record directly from the payphone. Even if I built a couple 4P4C-to-spade adapters, it still wouldn't work in this case, because it makes that call every night with its handset still on the hook. If you take its handset off the hook while it's doing it, it stops dialing.
So I looked for a device that is placed inline between the line cord and the wall jack, and the JK Audio Inline Patch does just that.
I connected the JK Audio device to my payphone and to my PC, and set up Audacity for sound-activated recording, so I could find out what it does when I'm not listening in on an extension phone, and also to see if it makes any calls at other times of the day.
It's been about 24 hours now, and so far it has only made its usual call at 12:20 AM, but what it did is bizarre. Unlike when I listen in on an extension phone, it never actually completed a call, nor did it ever dial the complete number. Instead, it dialed 1-800-644-555 (leaving out the final digit [1]), dropped the line, immediately reseized the line, dialed 1-800-644-555 again, and so on, six times in a row, and then hung up for good. I've attached the recording of it, though there's not much to listen to. It just slowly dials the same incomplete number 6 times in a row and stops.
My theory is that it never truly dials the complete number even when I'm listening in on an extension, but because I'm listening in, it can't actually drop the line after dialing 1-800-644-555 because my extension phone being off-hook is keeping the line seized, so when it dials 1-800-644-555 again, the "1" gets added to the end of 1-800-644-555, becoming 1-800-644-5551, a complete number.
That doesn't explain why it only repeats 3 times when I'm listening in, and ends with dialup modem sounds, though (as opposed to 6 times and no dialup modem sounds). It also doesn't explain what possible purpose could be served by dialing an incomplete number at all, let alone 6 times in a row.
It's good to know that it's not actually completing a call (or at least it didn't last night; I'm going to record again tonight to see if it does the same thing), but I still don't like it playing with the phone line for no good reason, and with no apparent way of making it stop. Speaking of which, one of my earliest memories is being reprimanded by a New England Telephone operator for playing with the phone, when I was about 3½ or 4 years old (1978 or 1979).
He said:
I asked for clarification 3 days ago ("What instructions? What search terms?"), but he hasn't replied. At this point I doubt there even is any official way to make it behave. Hacking the firmware would work, but I don't know how to do that. Of course, I could open it in a hex editor and make random changes, which would technically be considered hacking the firmware, but that would have about a 1 in a "zillion" chance of being correct.
For years I never knew if it was actually completing a call or calls every night or what it was doing. It wasn't until recently that I happened to pick up the handset of an extension phone just as the payphone had started sending tones, so that was the first time I heard it complete a call (which it was able to do because I wasn't already on a call).
Yesterday, a slick telephone recording interface device arrived in the mail (JK Audio Inline Patch). I've had a device for recording calls for years (which I connected to an extension phone to record the call that I attached to my first post in this thread), but it's a modular device that connects to the handset cord, so it's useless for trying to record directly from the payphone. Even if I built a couple 4P4C-to-spade adapters, it still wouldn't work in this case, because it makes that call every night with its handset still on the hook. If you take its handset off the hook while it's doing it, it stops dialing.
So I looked for a device that is placed inline between the line cord and the wall jack, and the JK Audio Inline Patch does just that.
I connected the JK Audio device to my payphone and to my PC, and set up Audacity for sound-activated recording, so I could find out what it does when I'm not listening in on an extension phone, and also to see if it makes any calls at other times of the day.
It's been about 24 hours now, and so far it has only made its usual call at 12:20 AM, but what it did is bizarre. Unlike when I listen in on an extension phone, it never actually completed a call, nor did it ever dial the complete number. Instead, it dialed 1-800-644-555 (leaving out the final digit [1]), dropped the line, immediately reseized the line, dialed 1-800-644-555 again, and so on, six times in a row, and then hung up for good. I've attached the recording of it, though there's not much to listen to. It just slowly dials the same incomplete number 6 times in a row and stops.
My theory is that it never truly dials the complete number even when I'm listening in on an extension, but because I'm listening in, it can't actually drop the line after dialing 1-800-644-555 because my extension phone being off-hook is keeping the line seized, so when it dials 1-800-644-555 again, the "1" gets added to the end of 1-800-644-555, becoming 1-800-644-5551, a complete number.
That doesn't explain why it only repeats 3 times when I'm listening in, and ends with dialup modem sounds, though (as opposed to 6 times and no dialup modem sounds). It also doesn't explain what possible purpose could be served by dialing an incomplete number at all, let alone 6 times in a row.
It's good to know that it's not actually completing a call (or at least it didn't last night; I'm going to record again tonight to see if it does the same thing), but I still don't like it playing with the phone line for no good reason, and with no apparent way of making it stop. Speaking of which, one of my earliest memories is being reprimanded by a New England Telephone operator for playing with the phone, when I was about 3½ or 4 years old (1978 or 1979).
Quote from: G-Man on April 06, 2024, 08:43:20 AMinstead, I would have a conversation with Jim Engle, a retired head of Cincinnati Bell's payphone division and since the operator of his own COCOT and an expert on Protel instruments.
He said:
QuoteJim Engle
Moderator
Group expert
Long story the instructions are on this page do a search.
I asked for clarification 3 days ago ("What instructions? What search terms?"), but he hasn't replied. At this point I doubt there even is any official way to make it behave. Hacking the firmware would work, but I don't know how to do that. Of course, I could open it in a hex editor and make random changes, which would technically be considered hacking the firmware, but that would have about a 1 in a "zillion" chance of being correct.
#49
Flea Market/Yard Sale/Antique Store/Thrift Store Finds / Re: 1950 WE 500
Last post by MMikeJBenN27 - April 10, 2024, 02:47:53 PMMaybe that change came about in mid 1950?
Mike
Mike
#50
Technical "Stuff" / Re: WE 295 subset Induction Co...
Last post by dsk - April 10, 2024, 01:34:13 PMThe WE #20 has 2 separate coils, 4 terminals. Primary has 16 ohms dc resistance, and secondary has 27 ohms, but just 80% of the windings of the primary.
The Kellogg coil is unknown by me, but if it has winding ratio between 2:1 and 1:1 it may work pretty well.
LB coils use to have one coil with resistance less than 5 ohms, and will not be suitable.
My lazy measurings would be to just to read out the resistance, and the conclusion would be:
If you have both windings between 10 and 30 ohms, it will probably do the job.
The Kellogg coil is unknown by me, but if it has winding ratio between 2:1 and 1:1 it may work pretty well.
LB coils use to have one coil with resistance less than 5 ohms, and will not be suitable.
My lazy measurings would be to just to read out the resistance, and the conclusion would be:
If you have both windings between 10 and 30 ohms, it will probably do the job.