Dialgizmo is back in business!

[Anna_5]

Hi,

So I ended up buying the Diagizmo and I can report it was very quickly dispatched by the vendor, arriving in the UK within little over a week. Unfortunately, all is not well because although the dialgizmo now finally lets me dial out ....it's no use because the connection for the other person is so bad, they basically can't hear me and a conversation is impossible. I would be so grateful for any suggestions what the problem might be and please do let me know whether you think I should post this question anywhere else in the forum.

Here just a few examples to give you a better idea how the phone works depending on what I plug in. I hope it makes sense to you, as  I'm everything but a techy:
The phone on its own seems to be fine. If I just plug in the phone with nothing else, I can receive phone calls and the connection is perfect both for the other person and myself. I just can't dial out myself.

However, this wouldn't be a permanent solution anyway as I also have to plug in my internet router into the master phone plug. As soon as I use a splitter and plug in both my phone and the internet's router things start getting worse. The connection sounds muffled both for myself and the other person (by the way the router is separately powered, it's plugged into an electrical socket). As above, I cannot dial out.

So this is the situation without dialgizmo.

When I add dialgizmo and only plug in the phone, I can dial out and hear the other person perfectly. However, as mentioned above they can hardly hear me, I basically have to scream down the phone for them to make out any sounds at the end of the line.

If I add dialgizmo and use a splitter with both my phone and my internet router added, I can still dial out, I can still hear the other person perfectly volume wise, but the connection is very bad. The line makes a terrible crackling sound.  For the other person it is as bad as ever, they can't hear me.

From my description do you have any suggestions what the problem might be and how it could be fixed? I'm so disappointed as I really love my W48 phone and haven't bought it just to look at it.

Thank you so much in advance!

Anska

[poplar1]

I'm not sure I follow all this, but it sounds like you are using a splitter to connect the phone and the dialgizmo together, rather than plugging the phone into the dialgizmo jack, and the pigtail from the dialgizmo into the router--with no splitter needed.

[unbeldi]

Hi,

So I ended up buying the Diagizmo and I can report it was very quickly dispatched by the vendor, arriving in the UK within little over a week. Unfortunately, all is not well because although the dialgizmo now finally lets me dial out ....it's no use because the connection for the other person is so bad, they basically can't hear me and a conversation is impossible. I would be so grateful for any suggestions what the problem might be and please do let me know whether you think I should post this question anywhere else in the forum.

Here just a few examples to give you a better idea how the phone works depending on what I plug in. I hope it makes sense to you, as  I'm everything but a techy:
The phone on its own seems to be fine. If I just plug in the phone with nothing else, I can receive phone calls and the connection is perfect both for the other person and myself. I just can't dial out myself.

However, this wouldn't be a permanent solution anyway as I also have to plug in my internet router into the master phone plug. As soon as I use a splitter and plug in both my phone and the internet's router things start getting worse. The connection sounds muffled both for myself and the other person (by the way the router is separately powered, it's plugged into an electrical socket). As above, I cannot dial out.

This is a crucial observation. It tells me that likely the DSL filter is having trouble. The splitter divides the incoming line as two signal paths. One path simply routes the incoming signal to the DSL modem, and the second through a signal filter to a jack into which the phone is plugged. The DSL filter is supposed to pass the low frequencies of voice and ringing to the phone, but block the high frequency signals that the DSL modem uses from reaching the phone.

Apparently, the DSL filter is cutting too much into the voice band. It may also be limiting the current available to power the telephone's transmitter sufficiently.

Did the DSL filter come with the equipment from your Internet access provider?
It seems to me that the filter you have is not adequate in quality for what you are attempting to do.  Perhaps it was even damaged by an over-voltage on the line during an electrical storm, a condition which may only become apparent when operating at the borderline of electronic usability.   Do you have more than one splitter?  I would try any others you might have.  Next I would buy a new high-quality splitter.  But, personally, I would measure the characteristics of the line with and without filter first, but that requires measuring equipment and knowledge.

So this is the situation without dialgizmo.

When I add dialgizmo and only plug in the phone, I can dial out and hear the other person perfectly. However, as mentioned above they can hardly hear me, I basically have to scream down the phone for them to make out any sounds at the end of the line.

This indicates to me that the power consumption of the dial gizmo is too high to leave enough current for powering the telephone's transmitter.  This requires at least 20 mA of current.  The specifications of the dial gizmo apparently are listed a 7 mA, which seems not unreasonable by my experience with other microcontrollers.  So this means your phone line must be capable of delivering at least 27 mA, and that is probably on the low side, because most historical telephone transmitters really operated ideally at much higher current.

If I add dialgizmo and use a splitter with both my phone and my internet router added, I can still dial out, I can still hear the other person perfectly volume wise, but the connection is very bad. The line makes a terrible crackling sound.  For the other person it is as bad as ever, they can't hear me.

Now things get really bad, as you compounded the individual problems into one.  Without hearing it, it is hard to surmise the cause of the crackling, but it could result from the dial gizmo operating with barely sufficient current. It seems to function though correctly.

BTW, the dial gizmo goes between the phone and the splitter, not after the splitter, but I assume you already got that part right.

From my description do you have any suggestions what the problem might be and how it could be fixed? I'm so disappointed as I really love my W48 phone and haven't bought it just to look at it.

Thank you so much in advance!

Anska

These are typical problems when dealing with historical technology in a modern environment. The components were not designed to work together.

Do you have a modern telephone, even touchtone, to switch in place of the W48? Does that work any better?  Modern phones have much lower current requirements.  This should help further diagnose and/or dispel some of my guesses.

[unbeldi]

I'm not sure I follow all this, but it sounds like you are using a splitter to connect the phone and the dialgizmo together, rather than plugging the phone into the dialgizmo jack, and the pigtail from the dialgizmo into the router--with no splitter needed.

I don't think that is how her setup is supposed to work.  It appears she has simply a DSL modem for Internet access only, without a built-in filter and a phone jack on the router.

[unbeldi]

As appealing as it is to have a dial gizmo that is powered from the telephone line directly, and not require a separate power supply, it can only work for a limited number of historical telephones, or combinations of various devices.  My inclination is that this is half the reason for reported high failure rates of those boxes.

The line interface chips in many EMTAs and ATAs provide very limited loop current, some can be switched in software between a couple levels, but when I tried this on a Vonage router for example, the high setting was only 40 mA, and 24 mA the low setting. It would be interesting to see how the gizmo handles that, but I refuse to spend that much for something that costs me $5 in parts to build myself. And my experimental dial "gizmo" runs off a USB wall plug.

Back to the current installation, though, which telephone company is providing the telephone and DSL line?

[cloyd]

Unbeldi,
If you are referring to making a homemade version of dialgizmo for $5, would it be feasible to put instructions online for the rest of us to build one?
Tina

[unbeldi]

Unbeldi,
If you are referring to making a homemade version of dialgizmo for $5, would it be feasible to put instructions online for the rest of us to build one?
Tina

I don't think so, price-wise and procedure.  That price assumed that I already had the basic electronics stuff, tools, meters, breadboard, and that I bought more than single pieces of parts. No nice little case either.  And then you have to learn to use the software tools, and burn the firmware to the chip.

I don't know how big the market really is for these gadgets, so I have no clue about the margin one needs when producing them.

[dsk]

I do not think the cost is so important here, as the reliability. Of course, I hate to waist money, but the if we knew the dialgizmo was trustable, it is not that expensive. But you can not trust it, and the quality is not even, I have tested 4 under equal conditions, and the 2 oldest works well, the newest are less stable.  (You only need one for each line, not for each phone)

dsk

[Anna_5]

Thank you for your responses! Unbeldi, really appreciate your detailed answers!

Apologies if my descriptions sound overly complicated or unclear. I don't want to confuse anyone, but unfortunately, English isn't my first language. So trying to describe something where you neither understand the technology behind it nor have the right technological terms is quite a challenge.

I'm pretty sure however I have set up the dialgizmo correctly . To be on the safe side I have attached a photo and I hope it clarifies somewhat what the set up with my phone looks like (by the way the grey cable on the right is the cable that connects the router ).

Unbeldi, thank you for your suggestion to try and change the splitter (or is filter the correct term?). I did that today and now the crackling sound is gone. So now when I dial out  I can hear the other perfectly clear even when the internet router is connected..

However, the main problem remains unchanged. The person I call still can't hear me. I'm pretty much at my wits end and don't know how to solve the problem. Unbeldi, if I understand you correctly, you think the fact that the other person can't hear me has to do with there not being enough voltage left for the voice transmission once the dialgizmo has been connected. Correct? But why then do I hear them so well?

Is there anything, anything at all that I could do to fix it?

If anyone has any suggestion or had a remotely similar problem and manged to resolve it, I would be so grateful if you could share it here. Maybe someone who also lives in the UK had the same issue? (Talk Talk is my provider).

Thanks so much,
Anska

P.S. Yes my modern phone instead of the W48 works perfectly fine.

[unbeldi]

Anna, your description was actually quite good and detailed.

From various readings over the years I have come away with the impression that many of the splitters/filters are too cheaply made and fail after certain amount of time.  I have never had to use any myself, however.

Here is the explanation for the difference in quality listening vs. speaking. An analog telephone only needs a power source for sending speech signals, not for receiving.  The microphone (transmitter) in these old sets is a varying-resistance kind that transforms direct current into an alternating ('undulating' as originally called) voice signal. The power for this comes from large batteries at the telephone company via the telephone line.  In old times, and especially in rural areas, most sets had a local battery installed for this purpose, as the lines were often too long for delivering sufficient amount of current.  When there is not sufficient amount of electric current available, the transmitter cannot generate enough voice signal to be transmitted.

Receiving is different, the receiver element essentially simply converts the voice signals on the line into sound. No additional power is needed, and therefore you hear the other party loud and clear.  The fact that you do hear the other party clearly tells me that there is probably no fault in the unit, such as a short, that deteriorates both, speech and battery level, but that your telephone is simply not getting enough juice to transmit.

Thanks for trying a modern telephone, this provides more support for my diagnosis. Modern telephones use much less line current, and some really only for supervision, i.e. letting the exchange know that you picked up the phone to make a call that you have hung up. You could also try some other set in the middle somewhere, perhaps a rotary phone from the 1980s, which should be more efficient also than the W48.

Your W48 looks to be in very nice condition.  I like those sets.

[unbeldi]

Other than trying a variety of phone with your dial gizmo, I think the only remaining steps would be more technical, measuring line currents and telephone resistance with a multimeter.

I would also contact the seller, don't they have a method to deal with customer problems?  Certainly they must have had other people connect a W48 to the unit.

Has anyone here opened one of these gizmos, and perhaps drawn up a parts list or even traced the circuit?

[podor]

I have tried to contact them several times with no answer. I may pull mine apart when I get some free time. I'm curious to see what's inside myself.

[unbeldi]

How is Talk Talk provisioning the service?  From visiting the website, I am not gaining much real information, but I am beginning to suspect that they have some kind of fibre infrastructure and deliver the services over a some kind adapter at each location.  Are you subscribing to Internet, TV, and Phone service?  Is this in a multi-dwelling structure perhaps where the units are only wired with telephone quality twisted pair inside wiring?  Some providers, use ADSL or VDSL modems in these situations to deliver data and voice into the units from a central wiring cabinet in the building, rather than rewiring with coax or fiber directly to each customer.  This may explain such rather small current available. Dial tone is not delivered from a central office, but from an adapter, perhaps on a VoIP network.

[dsk]

Thank you for your responses! Unbeldi, really appreciate your detailed answers!

Apologies if my descriptions sound overly complicated or unclear. I don't want to confuse anyone, but unfortunately, English isn't my first language. So trying to describe something where you neither understand the technology behind it nor have the right technological terms is quite a challenge.

I'm pretty sure however I have set up the dialgizmo correctly . To be on the safe side I have attached a photo and I hope it clarifies somewhat what the set up with my phone looks like (by the way the grey cable on the right is the cable that connects the router ).

Unbeldi, thank you for your suggestion to try and change the splitter (or is filter the correct term?). I did that today and now the crackling sound is gone. So now when I dial out  I can hear the other perfectly clear even when the internet router is connected..

However, the main problem remains unchanged. The person I call still can't hear me. I'm pretty much at my wits end and don't know how to solve the problem. Unbeldi, if I understand you correctly, you think the fact that the other person can't hear me has to do with there not being enough voltage left for the voice transmission once the dialgizmo has been connected. Correct? But why then do I hear them so well?

Is there anything, anything at all that I could do to fix it?

If anyone has any suggestion or had a remotely similar problem and manged to resolve it, I would be so grateful if you could share it here. Maybe someone who also lives in the UK had the same issue? (Talk Talk is my provider).

Thanks so much,
Anska

P.S. Yes my modern phone instead of the W48 works perfectly fine.

If a modern phone works well on the dialgizmo we have to look at your w48.

It should probably be discussed in another thread, e.g. this one: http://tinyurl.com/ovuh3bt

If our conclusion will involve the dialgizmo, it should be stated here.

dsk

[Anna_5]

Dear all,

I realize this is a very belated update and unfortunately I can't report a Eureka moment even now. However, I am revisiting today to give some feedback on my experience with the Dialgizmo, or rather with the seller. 

As suggested by some forum members in response to my phone problems, I contacted the dialgizmo seller in the hope that he might have some idea how to solve the problem. I contacted him repeatedly in my desperation, but received no response. With each email I gave him plenty of time for a response...nothing. I finally emailed him, letting him know that I wanted to return the Dialgizmo under the circumstances and asking him to approve the return and to tell me the return address....you may guess, again zero response from him.  All of this, even though the website suggests that there is customer service by giving a contact email and mentioning the option of a refund if the Dialgizmo doesn't work with your phone.
This is more than just bad communication, it is a total lack of customer care. Given that this piece of equipment wasn't exactly cheap, I decided to start a claim through Paypal. At least Paypal now got a sign from the seller as I was asked to return the item by tracked international service. So the seller is actually reading his mail, at least from Paypal...In the end, Paypal actually refunded me directly, not the seller, because they could tell my return package had already been delivered several days before.

I am sharing this story mainly for the benefit of those among you who are like me, not tech-savvy and who therefore can't be sure that they can help themselves if the Dialgizmo doesn't work properly with their phones. In that case I would strongly, strongly recommend to think twice about buying the Dialgizmo direct from the seller. Maybe I was the rare exception to the rule here, but I doubt it. Most likely, you will not receive any kind of support from this sellers end. And if it doesn't work and you want to return it...well, you've read my story. If you do want to give the Dialgizmo a try, it might be better to buy it from a secondary seller or someone who repairs vintage phones and who has a stock of Dialgizmos. So in case it doesn't work, you deal with them and you might have fewer problems return it or even finding a solution to a technical problem with their help.

For everyone who has had a similar experience to mine, with no response from the seller and your new Dialgizmo is now just sitting there unused. Don't just write off your money, if all fails try to return it through paypal!

Best of luck,
A.