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Western Electric D97464 (field trial 302) project

Started by WEBellSystemChristian, February 01, 2015, 07:06:30 PM

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WEBellSystemChristian

I'm going to create this topic to branch out from

This topic: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13590  (Wanted: assortment of WE parts)

And this topic: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13505.msg141911#msg141911  (1936-1937 302s)

to prevent thread hijacking, and have people leave comments and questions regarding this phone in a more appropriate thread that I created. I'm doing this rather than using a thread someone else created for different intentions, or a thread I created in an inappropriate section of the forum, designed for different discussions.

I'm going to use this thread to answer questions, post updates, and have you guys post comments about my D97464 field trial 302 project coming up soon.

Quote from: Bartonpipes on February 01, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
Just out of curiosity, how would you be doing the markings in orange ink? It would be great to have a tool for a serious restorer to be able to replace markings that have been worn off. (I can also see that it could be a bad thing for people trying to pass off more common phones as rarer ones)
I think I'm going to use 12-30 ink to make the dates. I think that ink is exactly the same as the orange ink we all know and love that was used by Western Electric to date phones in the '30s and '40s, but I'm not sure. I would also have to buy a set of numbers and letters ink stamps in the same font and size, but I don't know yet were I can find those.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

unbeldi

Let's  be realistic about this.  You have not a single part for a D97464 set, and no prospect of finding any part.

You have an undocumented housing that nobody currently knows anything about.  Did you speak with Jim Engle about its provenance? He seems to be having a source for these odd 302 parts, this is not the first.

You pulled the D97464 model number out of a hat and decided to create something with that number on it.  You will always know it's not that, anyone will recognize it is not that, and you cannot sell it as such.

So what is the motivation?

WEBellSystemChristian

#2
Quote from: unbeldi on February 01, 2015, 08:23:46 PM
Let's  be realistic about this.  You have not a single part for a D97464 set, and no prospect of finding any part.

You have an undocumented housing that nobody currently knows anything about.  Did you speak with Jim Engle about its provenance? He seems to be having a source for these odd 302 parts, this is not the first.

You pulled the D97464 model number out of a hat and decided to create something with that number on it.  You will always know it's not that, anyone will recognize it is not that, and you cannot sell it as such.

So what is the motivation?
I've always wanted to have some prototype or pre-production telephone artifact, and this is my only example of one. I know for a fact this is a D97464, because it doesn't have the handset cord mousehole, and that trait was only on those sets (unless you think Paul F is wrong).

I think you are making my point for me;
Quote from: unbeldi on February 01, 2015, 08:23:46 PMYou have not a single part for a D97464 set, and no prospect of ever finding any part.
You're right, it's that rare. Nobody has parts for sale anywhere that are clearly labeled "used on 1936 D97464 field trial sets", so why wait around for all-original parts to come up? It was very unusual to find this housing for cheap, so why not build a phone around it? The only other thing I could do is let the housing sit on a shelf and say that it's a 100 percent original set, without any non-original parts. I would rather have a mostly-replicated but complete field trial set than let the all-original housing sit in a parts bin or in storage.

Take for instance Dan/Panther's 1948-49 Field Trial 500. There aren't any parts on it anywhere that say it's from 1948 or 1949, but the details say it definitely is. He also added a ton of new parts to it, and overhauled every existing part on it. Does that mean it's no longer a field trial 500? That could be taken as a frankenphone because it has later parts on it.

I can still call it a D97464 because it has most of the "first impression" design cues of a field trial set, just not the exact internal components of one. I will be proud to display it as one, because I know this will be the closest I will ever come to owning one.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

rdelius

I have 2 of the field trial sets and only one has the single hole in back for both the cords.This housing has an unusual hook switch that is held i place with 4 screws.There  are photos on this site some where.The housing has a painted over Bell Labs field trial label that was painted over

paul-f

I posted a photo of the switchhook/plunger assembly here:
  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13590.msg142348#msg142348

I'd enjoy seeing photos of your D97464 housing with two cord holes.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

WEBellSystemChristian

USPS, where are you taking my housing?!? :o

It's supposed to be going to Chicago, and then Waukesha. Nope, USPS decides to take it to Iowa, and it's been there for a day now!

Frustrating...
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

DavePEI

#6
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:21:59 AM
USPS, where are you taking my housing?!? :o

It's supposed to be going to Chicago, and then Waukesha. Nope, USPS decides to take it to Iowa, and it's been there for a day now!

Frustrating...
Actually, the tracking shows it left Iowa last night 10:04 pm. Next scan should be in Chicago area.

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: DavePEI on February 03, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:21:59 AM
USPS, where are you taking my housing?!? :o

It's supposed to be going to Chicago, and then Waukesha. Nope, USPS decides to take it to Iowa, and it's been there for a day now!

Frustrating...
Actually, the tracking shows it left Iowa last night 10:04 pm. Next scan should be in Chicago area.

Dave
Oh, ok, thanks for pointing that out.

Still, kind of annoying that it didn't just take a straight shot to Chicago, but it somehow made it to Des Moines!
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

DavePEI

Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on February 03, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:21:59 AM
USPS, where are you taking my housing?!? :o

It's supposed to be going to Chicago, and then Waukesha. Nope, USPS decides to take it to Iowa, and it's been there for a day now!

Frustrating...
Actually, the tracking shows it left Iowa last night 10:04 pm. Next scan should be in Chicago area.

Dave
Oh, ok, thanks for pointing that out.

Still, kind of annoying that it didn't just take a straight shot to Chicago, but it somehow made it to Des Moines!

Des Moines is the distribution center.

With USPS, as it is in Canada Post and other means of shipping, it isn't a simple matter of an item going from the shipping location to the city it will be received in. What happens is it travels in stages, from one distribution point to another till is reaches the destination Post Office. For that reason, for a person not used to reading scans, it can be frustrating. What this scan means is it is still in progress.

It'll get there  :)

BTW I worked for 23 years with Canada Post, so am used to reading scans, but I can understand how confusing they can be!

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: DavePEI on February 03, 2015, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:49:38 AM
Quote from: DavePEI on February 03, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:21:59 AM
USPS, where are you taking my housing?!? :o

It's supposed to be going to Chicago, and then Waukesha. Nope, USPS decides to take it to Iowa, and it's been there for a day now!

Frustrating...
Actually, the tracking shows it left Iowa last night 10:04 pm. Next scan should be in Chicago area.

Dave
Oh, ok, thanks for pointing that out.

Still, kind of annoying that it didn't just take a straight shot to Chicago, but it somehow made it to Des Moines!

Des Moines is the distribution center.

Dave
I thought that Chicago has an even bigger distribution center, and that it could be sent directly there. I have never had a phone go to Iowa, it's always been sent to Chicago, then Oak Creek (Wisconsin's dist. Center) then Waukesha.

There probably was a very good reason for that, but my limited understanding of USPS' strange ways can't comprehend this.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

baldopeacock

Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on February 03, 2015, 09:49:38 AM
Still, kind of annoying that it didn't just take a straight shot to Chicago, but it somehow made it to Des Moines!

Look at it this way.   If you were to book a flight these days from Dallas/Ft Worth to Des Moines, all but one or two flights daily take you to multiple airports (Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, a couple of others before you finally arrive at DSM.   Overnight layovers are now commonplace, and it's a 2.5 hour flight going direct.   You can literally drive from here to Des Moines faster than you can fly on some of those.

Your packages aren't alone.   Human cargo gets shlepped all over the place, too.




DavePEI

Think of it in terms of what we see every day with mail from the U.S. The point it arrives in Canada depends upon where it was shipped from in the US. For example, an item shipped on the West Coast will arrive first in Vancouver. Mid-west to Toronto, items from the east will arrive first in Montreal or Halifax.

The point is that this is the routing from the mailing point, and there is a connection from there to you...

Confusing, perhaps, but all part of the logistics business. Don't worry, I am sure your baby will arrive safely in a day or two so long as it is well -packed!

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

WEBellSystemChristian

#12
The housing came!!!

Since I'm at school, my dad took some pictures of it.

There aren't any interior markings or labels, so I might powdercoat it. The paint isn't in really good shape anyway, and it has sort of a grainy texture to it.

Interesting how the rear mousehole doesn't have a ridge on the outer edge.

I bought a lot of plungers and other misc. parts from the same seller, so I will see if any of the plungers fit on the housing when I get home.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

DavePEI

The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

WEBellSystemChristian

Here is the news I have found so far:

Good news:
The housing is in good shape.

It is definitely from a D-series phone (not that it wasn't already confirmed).

5302 plungers do fit perfectly!


Bad news:

Any post-1937 lift will have to be modified to fit this housing. I'll go into detail later on tonight.

The base will have to be modified to fit the housing. The ribs in the housing sit in top of the base edge, so those edges will have to be ground down or bent inwards in order to let the housing fit. This also means that I will have to repaint the base.

The screw holes in the housing don't perfectly line up with the base screw holes, so new holes will have to be drilled next to the existing holes in the base.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford