I Just Couldn't Resist

[LarryInMichigan]

I saw this phone on craigslist this morning, and I couldn't resist it.  I e-mailed the seller, and I met her later in a nearby shopping center parking lot (she was driving a Mercedes SUV).  She told me that her husband bought the phone a few years ago at an antiques shop, and their new house doesn't have wall space for it.  She was asking $125, but I only had $105 with me, so she accepted that.

I tested out the transmitter and receiver on a SC500 phone, and I found that the transmitter is surprisingly sensitive, though it sounds like a candlestick type transmitter.  The transmitter is stamped "Type 6L" and "A.E. Inc. U.S.A".  The volume from the receiver is quite low for some reason.  The ringer works well when the magneto is cranked.  The cloth receiver cord appears to be a recent reproduction.  As you can see in the picture, the shelf is missing.

I am hoping to stick a spare network into the box and use the phone in my kitchen.  If anyone has any suggestions as to how to make the receiver work better, how to connect the ringer, and/or how old this phone is, I would greatly appreciate them.

Thank you


Larry

[Phonesrfun]

Larry:

You have one that is fairly old.  Probably the ninteen-teens or so, based on two observations.  First is that the wiring is all done by running solid wires in grooves in the wood.  The back of the phone is probably cris-crossed with grooves and wires running here and there.  Also, the wiring was wound around the hinge pins so that the wires could be run to the back of the door.

Second is the ornate-ness of the phone, which includes the cathedral top and the picture-frame routing around the transmitter on the front.

I am not an expert on Chicago telephones, but I can look in some books to see if I can pinpoint its age.  You did not show a picture of the inside of the door where the ringer hooks up.  

I believe this was a good purchase.

Now for the bad news.  The old magneto farm phones were set up to have their own battery and operated on a similar, but slightly different principle than the common battery phones that came into being when central offices came about.  Therefore, wiring it with a modern network, while entirely possible will take some work, especially if you do not want to just hack away at it, which could mess up its originality.

[Dennis Markham]

Bill, I could write what I know about wood phones on the head of a pin.  One thing I did notice with this phone is that the door hinge is on the right.  I had heard that early wooden phones opened in this manner with later doors having the hinges on the left side.  Is that true with all makes, or just with Western Electric wooden phones?  I do have a W.E. Model 317 that hinges on the left side.

[Phonesrfun]

I have heard that hinge thing too.  My early 317 hinges on the right, and my later 317 hinges on the left.  I have a 1928 Leich that hinges on the left too.

Western Electric did away with the more ornate wood phones before the teens, so maybe, Larry, your phone is older than that.  None of my picture books have a photo of that particular phone in them, and I cannot find a reference with some quick checking on the web.

Fore sure one of the ATCA or TCI folks would know.  There are some that are REALLY into woodies.

[LarryInMichigan]

Bill,

Here is a picture of the inside of the door.  You are correct about solid wires running through grooves on the back, and the wires from the door are soldered to the hinges.

I understand that these phones were designed for local battery operation, but I would like to add whatever is needed to make it work on my line.  I can insert a spare AE or WE network and add a capacitor for the ringer.  I expect that I would need to include a large resistor in line with the ringer since it was not designed for the voltages which it will be getting.  Do you have any suggestions for the ringer resistor and capacitor values to use?

I think that the phone is worth at least what I paid.  The seller (or her husband) probably paid much more than I did.  She told me that they were mostly interested in just getting rid of the phone because they had no room for it in their new house (in an upscale suburb).

I really appreciate your assistance.

Thank You

Larry

[LarryInMichigan]

Does the "Type 6L" AE transmitter help at all to date it?

Larry

[Phonesrfun]

The 6L in the AE transmitter does not mean much to me except that transmitters were often labeled L for Local battery and C for Common Battery service.

Finding a schematic for it will probably be pretty easy, but measuring the DC resistance of the ringer coils would be a start.  Some coils have the resistance printed on the fabric covers to the coil windings.  You would need to measure the resistance with the ringers out of the circuit, so I would try it with the receiver on the hook and without cranking the magneto, and nothing connected to the phone's input terminals.

The magneto puts out probably just about as much juice as your commercial telephone service does.  If the ringer coils are a decent value, you may get by without much or any additional resistance, depending on the value of the capacitor that would be needed, based on ringer coil resistance.

[Dan/Panther]

Dennis;
The reason they moved the hinge, is because the door would hit the handcrank, and leave gouges in it. Later models also dropped the high cathedral top.
I was going to hook mine up so it would work as designed, but it woulkdn't be feasible, so I installed a modern phone in the battery compartment, but wired the old bells transmitter and receiver to work with the new network.
Here is a photo.
D/P

[Phonesrfun]

Larry:

As you can see by D/P's example, all this is possible.  As far as the receiver not having much volume, this could be due to two things.

First is dirt and rust or a bent diaphragm that might get in the way of the diaphragm vibrating freely.  All rust and dirt must be cleaned off the diaphragm, and from the electomagnet poles that are inside the receiver.  This is probably the most frequent source of problems.  The diaphragm needs to ride just a fraction of an inch above the electromagnet poles when installed on the receiver, probably about the distance of a human hair.  This is so that it vibrates and creates sound.  This is not a setting that is measureable or adjustable.

The second issue would be if the horseshoe permanent magnet has lost some of its magnetism.  That is not so easily solved.  If that is the case, some have substituted the receiver guts with a newer capsule type receiver and placed something in the shell of the receiver to add back the appropriate amount of weight.

[LarryInMichigan]

Bill,

On both ringer coils, "1600" is faintly stamped on the fabric.  I measured the resistance across the ringer at 1500 ohms.  I connected the ringer to my line with .4MF (2 parallel .2MF capacitors salvaged from an AE80), and it rang, but not very loudly.  Would 1MF work?

Regarding the receiver, I will manage one way or another.  As it is, it is usable, but I will try to clean it and see if the performance can be improved.  I have a WE 20AL phone with a receiver which works perfectly, so I have a reference.  As a last resort, I have a small receiver capsule salvaged from a cheap disposable phone which someone discarded.

Thank You


Larry

[Dennis Markham]

Dan, thanks for posting that.  I think I remember you posting something about that phone in the past.  As I mentioned I have that 317.  I wouldn't mind doing something like that with that phone but I wouldn't want to ruin anything that couldn't be put back to original.  Maybe a project for "down the road".

[Phonesrfun]

1600 ohms is very common for ringers of that vintage.  A higher value cap would be in order, but it will drive up the REN equivalance, so if you already have a bunch of phones hooked up this might suck up some of the current.  Probably a 1 or even a 2Mf cap.  At that, you may need a 1 or 2k resistor, but you may need to experiment to see.

At any rate, the older 1600 ohm ringers used 1 and 2 MF caps all the time.

[Phonesrfun]

By the way, you can test the phone in its current local battery configuration quite easily.  Those two wires dangling down into the battery box can be hooked to a battery source.  Then you can short out the L1 and L2 lines at the top of the phone and see if you can hear yourself talk in its receiver.  Alternatively, you can hook any other telephone to L1 and L2 (remove the shorting wire) and see if you can hear yourself in the receiver of the other phone.  You will not be able to talk from the other phone back into the woodie because the other phone has no battery source.

You can also get a two D cell battery clip from Radio Shack for the purpose.  A single 1.5 volt source or preferably, a 3volt source will normally work just fine.  Polarity is not important.

[dsk]

What a find !

Please give me some time, Ill try to find how they concerted magnetos to automatic here in lack of telephones post WWI.

I believe that's quite simple, and you may use the line current to help the magnet on the receiver.

Edit:
Yes its simple, keep it as it was. Put in a 1 uF capacitor in series with the ringer. Adjust the ringer mechanically to get maximum sound. Use batteries to transmitter as in local battery setup, connect line as originally, switch polarity and choose the polarity witch gives best sound in the receiver.
Pulse dial may be put on line, outside the telephone. Tone dial may be put in parallel with receiver, or any suitable way depending on make.

The solution from the 20ies was just to remove the inductor handle to prevent sending ringer current out on the line. You may just isolate or short it depending on diagram. (Do you have a diagram?)

dsk

[LarryInMichigan]

d_s_k,

I do not have a diagram, and I cannot find one online.  I appreciate your help.

Larry