Early SC 1212 fatboy features?

[cloyd]

Hello all!

I have been looking for a 1212, fatboy for a while now and I would like to know what an authentic one would have been issued with from the factory.  What do the codes printed on the bottom mean?  I really like the "horse hoof" handset as someone on ebay called it.  Is there a model number for that handset?  What date range was that used?  Did SC use AE dials?  Seems like that is what I am seeing in the photographs but I am no expert!  Parts seem hard to come by too.  Is there any other advice you can give me?

Thank you,
Tina Loyd

[rdelius]

Earlier sets have the older handset ,not the handset on the 1222-1243.Older sets have an AE dial in many cases.SC did not build dials until later and they are not as good quality and do not fit the dial mounting hole well.1212 sets are fragile,esp the cradle and might have a tuned ringer.

[unbeldi]

The SC-1212 came with the Type 15 handset that has a 'spit cup' on the transmitter.
The type of dial could be specified by customers. Available were the standard AE dial, or a Western/Northern Electric dial.


PS: I attached the page from a 1942 catalog, in case you don't have this already. It should give you a good overview.

[poplar1]

The SC-1212 came with the Type 15 handset that has a 'spit cup' on the transmitter.

Earlier sets have the older handset ,not the handset on the 1222-1243.

Robby is correct. Karl, you need to get out more. The later 1212s, such as the 1212WADBZ, were equipped with the same handset as the 1243, as well as a longer plunger that was necessary because of the flat handle underside on these later handsets.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3488.0

[poplar1]

The type of dial could be specified by customers. Available were the standard AE dial, or a Western/Northern Electric dial.


PS: I attached the page from a 1942 catalog, in case you don't have this already. It should give you a good overview.

The catalog text does say "Standard A. E. Co.'s, W. E. Co.'s and N. E. Co.'s dials can be furnished at current prices." However, the wiring diagram in the catalog shows two different "Auto. Elec." dials and one "North Elec. Mfg. Co." dial. Perhaps the "N. E." dial mentioned for sale is North rather than Northern Elec.

[unbeldi]

Robby is correct. Karl, you need to get out more. The later 1212s, such as the 1212WADBZ, were equipped with the same handset as the 1243, as well as a longer plunger that was necessary because of the flat handle underside on these later handsets.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3488.0

I don't think that is correct.  It is no surprise to find sets with the no. 20 handset, spit cups went out of style in 40s, just like E1 handsets were replaced with F1s.
There was nothing special about the 1212WADBZ, it is simply the designation for the type of ringer, rubber handset cord, etc.  The type should still be a No. 15 handset. Although still in the 1942 catalog, that was probably pretty much the end of new 1212s, they probably didn't make any 1212 anymore after the war.

[poplar1]

I don't think that is correct.  It is no surprise to find sets with the no. 20 handset, spit cups went out of style in 40s, just like E1 handsets were replaced with F1s.
There was nothing special about the 1212WADBZ, it is simply the designation for the type of ringer, rubber handset cord, etc.  The type should still be a No. 15 handset. Although still in the 1942 catalog, that was probably pretty much the end of new 1212s, they probably didn't make any 1212 anymore after the war.

How do you explain the different plunger, if the #15 handset was replaced in the field or the repair shop by a #20?

[unbeldi]

How do you explain the different plunger, if the #15 handset was replaced in the field or the repair shop by a #20?

The No. 20 handset was clearly developed for the 1220 series and beyond.
I think the No. 20 handset is already in the 1942 catalog, why would they wait until a later time yet to put it officially on the 1212?

Unless I find another reliable reference, I don't think I will change my mind about it.
Is there any evidence that SC made 1212s after the war?

PS: I think the NO. 15 handset was more convex in the handle, and the no 20 handset didn't have that "bulge".  So it seems reasonable that the shops had to replace the plunger when changing handsets. In any case it seems like a very ugly design.

[cloyd]

PS: I think the NO. 15 handset was more convex in the handle, and the no 20 handset didn't have that "bulge".  So it seems reasonable that the shops had to replace the plunger when changing handsets. In any case it seems like a very ugly design.

Unbeldi,
I don't find it ugly at all!     I think it is adorable.  Each to their own.

I understand that the codes on the bottom specify features in the phone.  W for rubber cords, and letters to specify the type of ringer (metallic, divided circuit, standard harmonic and tuned frequencies.)  If I don't want to have to replace the ringer, which of those can I use?  (Are appropriate replacement ringers available?)

From my limited experience, I am guessing the following:
1212-AB 1400 ohms, straight line............................1212-ADB 1400 ohms, straight line  (how are these two different?)
1212-ABZ 1400 ohms, straight line biased.................1212-ADBZ 1400 ohms, straight line biased (and these two?)

Of the tuned frequencies, as I recall, it is the 20-25 cycles that will probably work on modern lines. The only ones I see in the catalog pages that Unbeldi graciously linked is the 1212-AN and 1212-ADN at 25 cycles (fifth party) in the category of Standard Harmonic ringers.

Am I missing any models that will ring on a modern line?  Again, are appropriate replacement ringers available?

Thank you,
Tina Loyd

[TelePlay]

At first, I just guessed with or without a dial (D has a dial), but after finding the SC 1212 catalog from 1942, I'll go with Divided Circuit Ringing, Page 12 of the 1942 SC Catalog.

The SC Catalog is on the TCI website.

[unbeldi]

Unbeldi,
I don't find it ugly at all!     I think it is adorable.  Each to their own.

I understand that the codes on the bottom specify features in the phone.  W for rubber cords, and letters to specify the type of ringer (metallic, divided circuit, standard harmonic and tuned frequencies.)  If I don't want to have to replace the ringer, which of those can I use?  (Are appropriate replacement ringers available?)

From my limited experience, I am guessing the following:
1212-AB 1400 ohms, straight line............................1212-ADB 1400 ohms, straight line  (how are these two different?)
1212-ABZ 1400 ohms, straight line biased.................1212-ADBZ 1400 ohms, straight line biased (and these two?)

Of the tuned frequencies, as I recall, it is the 20-25 cycles that will probably work on modern lines. The only ones I see in the catalog pages that Unbeldi graciously linked is the 1212-AN and 1212-ADN at 25 cycles (fifth party) in the category of Standard Harmonic ringers.

Am I missing any models that will ring on a modern line?  Again, are appropriate replacement ringers available?

Thank you,
Tina Loyd

With 'ugly' I was referring to the modification with the long plunger to permit the use of No. 20 handsets.  I don't think this was a modification by Stromberg-Carlson.

Yes, you want a straight-line ringer, which rings at 20 Hz.  I believe I read somewhere, that the ringers from the 1222s, and even 1243s, etc., fit. but better check that out yourself.  But personally, I would not change a ringer that matches the markings on the phone. I would find a way to make it ring the way it was intended. Get a Vonage ATA, for example.

[unbeldi]

This is probably one of those sources from which the long-plunger types came from.  Telco 1969.
I don't remember where I found this.

[Jim Stettler]

I think I have the red and beige sets. The ad doesn't mention that they are painted.

Jim S.


I do have have a clear (greenish translucent) set as well. very HTF

[unbeldi]

I think I have the red and beige sets. The ad doesn't mention that they are painted.

Jim S.


I do have have a clear (greenish translucent) set as well. very HTF

Oh, I am sure they are painted. The finger wheel on these has the same color.  These shops did the same thing to the 1212s as they did to the 302s, and others.

SC did make colored 1212 from cellulosics, probably Tenite.  They were located in the same town as Kodak (Rochester), so that is a logical choice. Kodak probably used SC phones as Rochester, I believe, was an independent's town.

[cloyd]

Unbeldi,
I agree about the aesthetics of the long plunger, it is ugly.

Jim,
If you posted pictures of your 1212's, I missed them.  Can you reply with a link to your posts or, perhaps, post pictures?  I would love to see the variations!

Tina