Sig Corp dial part

[Phonesrfun]

Looks like the same as the AE dial.

Look at the very first example of the attached.

[Greg G.]

Today is "someday", so I went back to this.  Boils down to this - where this phone was fully functioning before, it's only partially functioning now.

All I've done to it is swap out the WE 6A dial for a more original T-45 dial.  It dials out and receives calls, but the receiver isn't working and neither does it ring.  Transmitter is ok.  I've tried studying the wiring diagram for a TP6A, but there are more than a couple wires that don't seem right.  Only other thing I did was remove the handset because I was going to swap for a more original Sig Corp handset, but it was in bad shape, so I just put the F1 back on.  I tried a receiver element from another F1 handset that was known to work, but I still couldn't hear anything.

[paul-f]

Do you have the yellow and green line cord leads wired together?  Alternately, you can wire it using just two line cord leads as in the diagram below.

If your wiring for the talk path looks right, try cleaning and adjusting (if needed) the spring contacts in the handset, dial and hook switch -- making sure the dial shunt contacts open when the dial is at rest.  If that doesn't get it, use a continuity checker to buzz out the wiring,  I'd start from the known good receiver following the red, then the black handset cord leads.

[Greg G.]

Ok, got the cotton-pickin' thing to ring by moving the black ringer wire over to K like it shows in the diagram, but still the same problem with the receiver.  I did the reverse test, put the receiver element into a known good F1, and it works in the other F1 fine.  I checked the springs under the element, they seemed to be ok, but I cleaned them and bent them up a bit anyway.  The wires seemed to be ok too, no corrosion.  Same for the underside of the element.  It looked ok, but cleaned it up anyway.

I checked the dial and hook switch contacts, they seem to be fine.  This phone was very clean to begin with, that's why I decided to use parts from the other, which was not in good shape, except for the dial.  I also tried hooking up the yellow and green line wires together like you suggested, no difference (I also hooked them together on the biscuit end).

One part of the diagram I'm not sure of is the two black wires that go to the dial.  One is from the capacitor, the other from the handset.  The detailed diagram of the dial shows one on the shunt side, one on the pulse side, but doesn't distinguish which is which.  I've tried it both ways, but the result is the same.

I don't know what a continuity checker is, let alone possess one.

[paul-f]

Ah.  Well it's high time you learn!

An internet search turns up this one, plus a lot of others:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_tester

As you troubleshoot phones, one nagging problem is that you can't see whether a wire is conducting properly or whether the ends are making good electrical contact with the terminal or component.  Some times, the wire itself fails.  Other times the connection between the wire and spade tip may be faulty.  As mentioned, dirty contacts in a switch can stop electrical conductivity.

There are several ways to test for electrical conductivity.  Even an inexpensive volt/ohmmeter can be used -- and often includes a switch setting to specifically test continuity using a battery in series with a beeper and the test leads.

There's a good section on test instruments in "Old-time Telephones!" by Ralph Meyer.

[Jim Stettler]

A simple continuity tester can be built from a "D" cell holder and 1.5 v Buzzer (both from radio shack). run the buzzer in series w/ The battery. when you complete the circuit it buzzes.


I usually use a telephone "toner". You can tone wires, check continuity and use it for talk battery (basic intercom/ sidetone, TT tester ect). You can buy them on ebay cheap.


3 basic tools that are fun and practical to own are a buttset, toner and Tracker (inductive amplifier). You can buy an inexpensive meter for 10-20 as well.
All of these tools can be found and the aftermarket cheap.
Jim

Maybe we should add a simple continuity tutorial to the tech page. It is a very valuable skill to learn, and it really helps in understanding low volt  circuits. It is also a great interactive activity for kids.

I am an alarm tech and all my circuit problems (basically)  come down to is it conducting or not.

[Greg G.]

Ah.  Well it's high time you learn!

...  Even an inexpensive volt/ohmmeter can be used -- and often includes a switch setting to specifically test continuity using a battery in series with a beeper and the test leads.

Hmm, well I have one of these gizmos, but don't know how to use it, will that suffice?

[Greg G.]

...
Maybe we should add a simple continuity tutorial to the tech page. It is a very valuable skill to learn, and it really helps in understanding low volt  circuits.
...

That would be a great idea!  Unlike the vast majority of phone collectors, I started w/o a phone background or an electronics background.  Series, parallel, volts, ohms, corpuscles - all Greek to me!

[Dan/Panther]

Briny;
Set the dial in the center on the 200K scale, (The area with the omega sign), the meter should show a number 1.
If you touch the two probes together, it should then go to 00.0, or something similar.
To use the meter touch the probes between two spots you need to see if a path exists. If the meter goes to 00.0, you have continuity, if not the path is broken. DO NOT DO THIS WITH ANY POWER CONNECTED.
This is very handy to determine if line/handset cords are functioning, or if the spade connector you just installed is actually making contact with the wire inside.
D/P

[Greg G.]

Briny;
Set the dial in the center on the 200K scale, (The area with the omega sign), the meter should show a number 1.
If you touch the two probes together, it should then go to 00.0, or something similar.
To use the meter touch the probes between two spots you need to see if a path exists. If the meter goes to 00.0, you have continuity, if not the path is broken. DO NOT DO THIS WITH ANY POWER CONNECTED.
This is very handy to determine if line/handset cords are functioning, or if the spade connector you just installed is actually making contact with the wire inside.
D/P

Using your instructions, the wires/connections of the handset all check out ok.  This is an F1 handset. 
A red/slate and white wire from transmitter to receiver, then the black, red and white handset cord wires.  With the wires and the element itself all checking out, something else is amiss here.

[Dan/Panther]

Check for touching spade connectors, and spade connectors that are not connected to the wire inside the phone, check the line cord.
On the very small connection points vat the wall end of the line cord, I use a safety pin to touch the connection point in the end connector, and the loop at the end of the safety pin to put the probe end into.

D/P

[paul-f]

Looking good.

When testing, make sure there is only one electrical path between the two meter probes.  Sometimes it's necessary to disconnect one wire to make sure the path you want to test is isolated from the rest of the circuit.

[paul-f]

...
Maybe we should add a simple continuity tutorial to the tech page. It is a very valuable skill to learn, and it really helps in understanding low volt  circuits.
...

That would be a great idea!  Unlike the vast majority of phone collectors, I started w/o a phone background or an electronics background.  Series, parallel, volts, ohms, corpuscles - all Greek to me!

Try this...
  http://oldphoneguy.com/images/OldTex22BW.pdf ( dead link 03-18-22 )

[Jim Stettler]

Paul,
That is a really good reference. It pretty much covers the tutorial info that I was suggesting.

Colin  has a lot more information and projects at
http://oldphoneguy.com/

Colin is on the forum, but he keeps quiet. He did join in on the D/P conference call.
Jim

[Greg G.]

Looking good.

When testing, make sure there is only one electrical path between the two meter probes.  Sometimes it's necessary to disconnect one wire to make sure the path you want to test is isolated from the rest of the circuit.

I went back and tried that, disconnected both ends, same result, all good.  Also carefully checked to make sure nothing's touching that isn't supposed to.  I'm stumped.  This handset was functioning before, and it's not the receiver element.  I made a hand-drawn diagram of how I have it wired, it's "by the book" according the the wiring diagram for this phone.  Also a couple of pics of the dial at rest and the hook switch.