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5302 Date Production ?

Started by Drew, March 11, 2010, 07:50:11 AM

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Drew

Why did WE wait until 1955 to introduce the 5302 ? The following photo from Pacific Tel Magazine dated 1949 shows what looks like a 5302 shell ?

http://www.paul-f.com/weproto.html#500

I'm just curious why they waited five years after the 500 was introduced to utilize all the 302 parts

Whats the earliest example folks here have seen or own ?

Quick update; I just opened up my 5302 - a little surprised at the dates...baseplate is 6/46, network is 2/46, ringer is 4/46 and the dial is marked I-41. The only mark I can find on the shell is a molded '2' near the plunger.  Obviously it must heve been a 1946 model 302 traded in, fitted with a 5302 shell. Seems a little odd that the dial is a '41 ?     I like this phone.

Phonesrfun

#1
Drew:

A most gracious welcome to the forum!  We have a lot of fun here, and it is a great place to share photos, experiences and our latest finds and everything in between.

As to your question, I believe it will probably be hard to pinpoint an exact date on the 5302's in general because they were, as you noted, a refurb of 302's with a new cover and cords.  The insides of any one 302 can have a range of dates.

As you noted, they were not a logical link between the 302 and the 500.  I think what happened is the 500 was so popular in an economy of post-war boom that everyone had to have the new 500.  As a result, the Bell System had so many perfectly good new and used 302's just sitting in warehouses, and at the time the 302's were built to last forever.  The Bell System was always very frugal, and so rather than sending the old phones to the smelters, they put new covers on the old 302's and made a 500 look-alike.

The 500's, however were designed with the new network and could work much better on long loops.  That is, longer distatnces between the subscriber's home or business to the central office.  Therefore, the installers were instructed to only install the 5302 on the shorter to medium length loops.  Those out in the sticks had to have a 500.

I don't think waiting for 1955 was really a conscious decision.  I think when faced with such a surplus of 302's piling up, it was a cost saving measure.  The photo on the Paul F site looks more to me like a 500 than a 5302.  The dial does not seem to be raised up for the #6 dial, and the distance between the top outer ring of the dial to the hookswitch ears on a 5302 is very narrow, as compared to the 500.  The photos seem to have distances that are like a 500.  The one thing about the photos that seems to be like a 5302 is the stubby looking back.  This could be the angle of the photo.

-Bill Geurts
-Bill G

Dennis Markham

#2
Drew, welcome to the forum.  I modified your posting in that the link to Paul F's site wasn't working.

In my opinion, the link you posted IS the model 500 and not a 5302.  At least it doesn't look like a 5302.  Paul Fassbender as you may know has a lot of information about the Model 5302 here:

http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm#5300


He does indicate that the production of the 5302 began in 1955 but I do not see mention of the design date. I don't think the design for the 5302 began in 1949.  They probably didn't know how popular the model was going to be at that time.  It wasn't until the mid 50's when the demand became so strong with the advent of the color phones.  At least that's how I've understood it.

Paul does list the Bell System Practices number (BSP's) for the 5302 on the above referenced page.  Many of the BSP's are listed on the TCI technical page here, however I don't see any for the 5302.  

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/library/weco/weco.htm


Teka-bb (Remco) has a page of BSP's that you can view here.  The BSP number for the 5302 may be listed on his site.  Otherwise, Jim S may have access to the 5302 BSP.

http://sc.infc.info/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=2

I hope this information helps and once again, Welcome to the Forum!

Wallphone

Although they are very rare, Western Electric did make the 5302's in colors too.
They came in beige, light blue, white, and pink. There is a good article about the colored 5302's
in the February issue of the TCI newsletter (Singing Wires) by Dr. Jonathan Finder.
Dougpav

JorgeAmely

#4
Doug:

Remember when Bob Loeser (ebay handle bbqbob) auctioned a set of colored 5302 about a couple of years ago?

Somewhere in here there is a picture of the set.

PS: I found this link:

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/pictures/?id=110416147
Jorge

Dennis Markham


Drew

#6
Thanks for the information and the welcome. My primary interest is the 500 family and the 5302 is a relative. I'm also fond of the 302's. I'm not a phone technician, but am able to take them apart, clean and figure out some of the history of a set despite having a spinal cord injury which limits the use of my hands....it can be a challenge, but it's worth it.  Really love the way these phones are engineered  and made.  

I've noticed that the colored 5302's are rather desirable with this pink one bringing over $600. recently -  http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Western-Electric-PINK-5302-Transition-Telephone_W0QQitemZ230442084806QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a76b29c6

To date I own;   a 1947 model 302 (my first phone, yard sale in 1981 for $1.00), a 5302 ('46 components), 12/52 model 500, 7/54 500, 8/61 ITT 500 in red, and five other 500 sets from the 1960's.

Wallphone

Jorge,
I have to admit that until Russ Cowell & Paul Fassbender did a series of articles in TCI's Singing Wires about the WE 500 last year, I didn't have much interest in them. They were too "modern" for me.
Times have changed since reading those articles and being on this forum. I actually bought a 1961 black 500 and a 1961 black 511 on eBay yesterday. How much did Bob get for the colored 5302's?
Dougpav

rp2813

This is the first I've read where 500's were better over long loops.  I thought it was the other way around, and that people out in rural areas who wanted 500's couldn't have one, which was one of the situations that was taken into consideration when developing the 5302, along with the widespread desire of subscribers stuck with 302's to have a loudness adjustment for the ringer.

Drew, I always imagined the 5302's would have a tell-tale #5 or earlier dial in some models, which would be a dead giveaway to many subscribers that they had a 302 in disguise.  My 5302 has a #6 dial, which sounds very much like the 7 series found on the 500's.  Other than the raised bezel assembly, it would be hard for most subscribers to notice a difference from the 500.

So Drew, does your 5302 have the G1 or F1 handset, and if it's a G-type, does it have the F1 transmitter capsule and HA1 receiver element?
Ralph

JorgeAmely

Dougpav:

Now that you are expanding your collection into plastic phones, you get to double the numbers of phones you have.  ;D

I don't recall how much Bob got for those phones, but the number $2500 or $3500 seems to surface often. I am sure he had a good trip to Disneyland that year.

In order to not forget how much I pay for ebay phones, I always save the web page that contains the auction on a folder and label the folder something like this: 1956 WE500 Mediterranean Blue with smooth cords, or something like that so I can go quickly and find the auction record.

I have one labeled 1956 WE500 Mediterranean Blue with curly cord - the one that got away

Sad, isn't it?  :(
Jorge

Drew

#10
Quote from: rp2813 on March 11, 2010, 01:32:47 PM
This is the first I've read where 500's were better over long loops.  I thought it was the other way around, and that people out in rural areas who wanted 500's couldn't have one, which was one of the situations that was taken into consideration when developing the 5302, along with the widespread desire of subscribers stuck with 302's to have a loudness adjustment for the ringer.

Drew, I always imagined the 5302's would have a tell-tale #5 or earlier dial in some models, which would be a dead giveaway to many subscribers that they had a 302 in disguise.  My 5302 has a #6 dial, which sounds very much like the 7 series found on the 500's.  Other than the raised bezel assembly, it would be hard for most subscribers to notice a difference from the 500.

So Drew, does your 5302 have the G1 or F1 handset, and if it's a G-type, does it have the F1 transmitter capsule and HA1 receiver element?
Okay, it's a little hard to read .,..the handset looks like F-1W (looks the same as those seen on 302's). It has a F1 transmitter dated 1958 and a HA1 receiver element dated 1950.  

Wallphone

Jorge,
If I doubled my collection, I would have to get an addition added on to my basement.
I do have a couple of 500's (one WE & one Kellogg) that are pretty beat up and were throw in's with other phones that I bought. I found a beat up Kellogg "Banjo" phone that I didn't know I had in the garage about a month ago and it cleaned up nicely. I had a Kellogg rounded style handset that Ray Kotke gave to me at the TCI show last Labor Day and it was perfect for the "Banjo". And I've had three 5302's for awhile so I never was that far away from collecting 500's.
I have my eyes open for them now.
Dougpav

Dennis Markham

Doug, what color is your "Banjo"?

Wallphone

Dennis,
The "Banjo" is black.
If it was colored it probably wouldn't have been hiding in the garage for a few years.
Dougpav

Wallphone

For those that don't know, there are 8 free samples of TCI's Singing Wires available on their web site.
Here is a shortcut. > http://www.telephonecollectors.org/singwire/samples.php <
Three of the issues have good stories about the WE 500 by Russ Cowell and Paul Fassbender.
The other five issues are interesting as well.
Dougpav