BTMC / SEL Assistent, was that the first of the standard greys?

[Matilo Telephones]

Finally got myself a SEL (Standart Electrik Lorenz) Assistent

Very happy with it, and it completes my collection of rotary telephone designs that were develeped by BTMC Antwerp, with the purpose of world wide production.

It is in a very nice condition and seems to be totally orignal, except for the line cord. But that is something I can live with.

Researching it, I noticed that I cannot find another model that was produced in standard grey earlier than this one.

There are several documents in the TCI library about it: http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/cat_view/42-catalogs-manuals-and-educational-documents/111-btmc

One article, from "Electrical Communication" states it was developed in the 2nd half of the 50s.

Other phones were produced in grey before this model, but not as the standard color. So was this the phone that sparked off the wave of grey standard phones, like the GPO 700s, Socotel S63, T65, FeTAp 61x etc etc?

[unbeldi]

Very nice indeed.  Which year was yours made?  60s?  Was this made in Berlin?

I thought the first colors in the European market were introduced by Siemens right after the Trommelwähler became essentially a business failure ca. 1955. The market for private as well as postoffice telephones was essentially all black until then.
Siemens revamped its PABX division with color phones, such as the Fgtist 282 which was initially produced in four colors or so, and one of them was a darker gray (left in image). I don't exactly know when the grey switched to the Kieselgrau (pebble gray, right), but I think it was before 1960.

Not clear who influenced whom, but it certainly started in the private telephone system market.

[Matilo Telephones]

Thank, it was made in 1962. I could not find a production location on it.

I have attached a scan of the inside base plate. It has some number codes on it, but I do not know exactly what they mean.

As for the Fg Tist 282, there are 2 versions, the M55 and the V 62.

The M55 came in the colors green, red, grey, ivory and black. But grey was not the standard color and the majority of the M55's I see are black.

So, the Assistent is from about the same date but it's standard color is grey.

BY the way, it seems that telephone development at Siemens and at BTMC runs almost paralel. The ZBSA 11 appears almost at the same moment as the BTMC 2652. Both phones have a lot of similarities and share a lot of the same innovations.
Again in 1927 when both the Modell 27 and the 2712, again in 1936 when the Modell 36 and the Antwerp phone are introduced.
Again in 1955, the Fg Tist 282 and the Assistent.

[unbeldi]

Ok,  in that case let me offer you the Fgstat 23b, which according to Dietrich Arbenz came out in 1957 and its "standard" color appears to have been Kieselgrau, but was also made in black and ivory at first.
It took me a while to find a picture but I found one on Facebook, yuck.  This source claims it was built from 1956 to 1973.



Intuitively I would like to credit Siemens, because they had the European or German equivalent of Henry Dreyfuss on staff, Oestereich, since the 1940s, who later became a renowned professor of industrial design.

[Matilo Telephones]

Thanks, I have contacted Stefan, the owner of that facebook account, and he says he got that date from a Siemens employee.
I have a book by Dietrich Arbenz, Vom Trommelwähler zu Optiset E, but the Fg Stat 23b is not mentioned specifically.
It gives the date for the 282 as 1955 (also known as M55, Modell 55 so that checks out, I guess).

Which publication by dr Arbenz did you get that from?

I also have a book on Siemens Industrial design, http://www.hatjecantz.de/siemens-industrial-design-3340-1.html
It doens not give a year of introduction for the wall model.
It does however say the 282 won a design award in 1954. Assuming that the wall model was designed at the same time, it would seem to predate the Assistent.

The Assistent according to the article by Gruger and van Holst was field tested in 1956.

I lean towards Siemens too at the moment as the company who introduced standard grey, but I find the information too inconclusive to draw a conclusion.

I will try to dig a little further. :-)

The reason I am asking is that I am writing an article about the Assistent and its legacy in the telephon world. But right now it may be an article in itself, the matter of who intruduced the greys.

[unbeldi]

Thanks, I have contacted Stefan, the owner of that facebook account, and he says he got that date from a Siemens employee.
I have a book by Dietrich Arbenz, Vom Trommelwähler zu Optiset E, but the Fg Stat 23b is not mentioned specifically.
It gives the date for the 282 as 1955 (also known as M55, Modell 55 so that checks out, I guess).

Which publication by dr Arbenz did you get that from?

I also have a book on Siemens Industrial design, http://www.hatjecantz.de/siemens-industrial-design-3340-1.html
It doens not give a year of introduction for the wall model.
It does however say the 282 won a design award in 1954. Assuming that the wall model was designed at the same time, it would seem to predate the Assistent.

The Assistent according to the article by Gruger and van Holst was field tested in 1956.

I lean towards Siemens too at the moment as the company who introduced standard grey, but I find the information too inconclusive to draw a conclusion.

I will try to dig a little further. :-)

The reason I am asking is that I am writing an article about the Assistent and its legacy in the telephon world. But right now it may be an article in itself, the matter of who intruduced the greys.

In your original question you asked for the first set that came in grey in standard edition (paraphrased), has this changed to who introduced grey?

I am not so sure that it is actually a relevant question about the first "standard" grey set. Surely whichever one it was probably made the decision on a prior finding that the color would actually be commercially successful.  I think a prior telephone established that this was so, while being primarily issued in the traditional colors, black and perhaps ivory as the "color" option.  The 282 most likely did that. It would be hard to conceive that Siemens copied their colors from anyone else. It seems it was a standard practice for decades almost that everyone copied from Siemens.

Yes, the 282 won international design awards, and it was so well received that Siemens even decided to file a design patent in the US, to prevent copies in the US, the largest market.

I think for an article I would focus less on a sudden event that created that Kieselgrau color, but on the evolution from black at the beginning of the 50s to the color variations for PABX system (Trommelwähler,...), through acceptance by the telephone authorities, Bundespost, PTT, RTT, etc.  until it becoming the dominant color of the 60s, with T&N and others using it as well as the main finish.

I am fairly sure, I was remembering Arbenz' book, I have to look at my documents to see for sure, but he is the only one who has created a coherent history of Siemens products.

[unbeldi]

I just tried a quick Google search for fgstat 23B and got this page from the Arbenz book.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ywBnQ_Pd7IgC&pg=PA211&lpg=PA211&dq=FGstat+23B&source=bl&ots=zl8f6ADRfy&sig=cgEarxWKMZR3JkscJYJrWB-QMNs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAWoVChMIh6imkOHexwIVgpENCh0pYA8A#v=onepage&q=FGstat%2023B&f=false

If nothing resolves the question, you could probably contact him directly, I am sure he has more comprehensive knowledge about the market place of the time, which may not be appropriate for the book.  I think he worked for Siemens himself.

[unbeldi]

Note that in the list of  key features of the 23b, Arbenz lists under "Colors:" as primary color Kieselgrau with ivory-colored handset caps, and only then ivory and black (last).  He quotes as his source a Siemens periodical of 1957.

But we should still recognize that even the 23b was not an approved set for public consumption connected directly to central office lines, only for private telephone systems.

So, in this respect it seems important to find out in which jurisdictions and when the Assistent was actually a tested and approved type.

[Matilo Telephones]

Thanks Unbeldi, indeed the question has changed from who introduced standard grey to where did it come from.

It seems to me, although the 282 came in a hand full of colors, grey is the most abundant by far. And perhaps that is it, customers chose grey.

Anyway, I'll contact Dietrich about it. Perhaps he can shed more light on it.

[unbeldi]

Thanks Unbeldi, indeed the question has changed from who introduced standard grey to where did it come from.

It seems to me, although the 282 came in a hand full of colors, grey is the most abundant by far. And perhaps that is it, customers chose grey.

Anyway, I'll contact Dietrich about it. Perhaps he can shed more light on it.

I would love to get a copy of that 1957 Siemens paper, that was his source.

[Matilo Telephones]

I have had contact with Dietrich on this matter, but he has no additional information as to how the choice for grey on the 282 came about.

The question I have has changed from "Was the Assistent the first grey?" to "How did telephones change to grey as a standard color?" although grey was not the standard color in every country.

But other office equipment turned grey too, like calculators. So it may very well be that this fashion was influenced by something other than telephones.

I did ask him for that paper, by the way. :-)

[Matilo Telephones]

I just tried a quick Google search for fgstat 23B and got this page from the Arbenz book.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ywBnQ_Pd7IgC&pg=PA211&lpg=PA211&dq=FGstat+23B&source=bl&ots=zl8f6ADRfy&sig=cgEarxWKMZR3JkscJYJrWB-QMNs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAWoVChMIh6imkOHexwIVgpENCh0pYA8A#v=onepage&q=FGstat%2023B&f=false

If nothing resolves the question, you could probably contact him directly, I am sure he has more comprehensive knowledge about the market place of the time, which may not be appropriate for the book.  I think he worked for Siemens himself.

Yes, it is in my copy of this book too. I just looked in the wrong place.

[unbeldi]

I think you may right that the color choices of the time on telephones were influenced by larger issues than just telephone design.  In the US, the Bell System and others hired outside consultants for these choices and conducted extensive market and design studies.  For example, in the early 1930s (ca. 1931/2)  they arrived at the color selection for the 300-series, which would not be produced until years later, by a group of designers from outside the telephone business. The earliest color 302s we typically find seem all dated in early 1939.  More studies amended that color palette in the 1950s and changed it to the pastel colors by 1957, the same time frame as in Europe when these sets were introduced.

Gray (or grey) seems like a safe and conservative choice, a neutral color that goes with almost any other, as a replacement for the historical standard black, while providing a distinctively modern and progressive flair.

[Dan/Panther]

This was actually the FIRST Greys.
D/P

[Matilo Telephones]

Thanks Unbeldi, indeed the question has changed from who introduced standard grey to where did it come from.

It seems to me, although the 282 came in a hand full of colors, grey is the most abundant by far. And perhaps that is it, customers chose grey.

Anyway, I'll contact Dietrich about it. Perhaps he can shed more light on it.

I would love to get a copy of that 1957 Siemens paper, that was his source.

I've had contact with Dietrich about this matter and the source was a 1957 Siemens catalogue, stating the available colours and versions.