Need Wiring Diagram For 151AL Candlestick, 5 Conductor Mounting Cord & 302 Base

[gands-antiques]

Hello,

I'm looking for a wiring diagram for a 151AL Western Electric candlestick with a 5H dial and a 5 conductor mounting cord and I"m trying to use a 302 base for the subset. 

I would really appreciate it if anyone could provide a wiring diagram for wiring this set up.

Thanks,
Gary   

[poplar1]

Gary, you need only 4 conductors between the 151AL and the 302 Base, shown here as red, green, yellow and black. Just tape and store the extra conductor.

Also, the "Y-BK" terminal shown on the diagram doesn't exist. (It is on the apparatus blank of the non-dial version.) The black wire from the 302 base goes directly to BK on the dial.

Since you are using a 5H dial, strap the BB and R dial terminals.

From TCI library, redrawn by Bobby Koch.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2134-desk-stands-151al-tl

[gands-antiques]

Thanks Poplar.   I appreciate the diagram.  I'll be leaving for a while but when I return I'll wire it to the diagram and let you know how it goes.


Thanks again,
Gary

[gands-antiques]

I have another question......how do you attach a cover from a 684A subset to a 302 base?

It looks like additional holes are required in either the cover or in the 302 base.

The holes on my 684A cover are at right center and left center and the holes on the 302 base are at top center and bottom center.


Thanks,
Gary

[poplar1]

Ray Kotke (kleenax) makes repro covers that will fit  302 bases. The 684A covers are the wrong size.

[gands-antiques]

Since I don't have a reproduction cover for my 302 base, I do have a 685A and 687A subsets...will either or both of these subsets work with the 151AL?    If so, do you have a wiring diagram for these?

Thanks,
Gary

[poplar1]

The 687A as furnished does not contain a network. If you  install a 101A induction coil and 195 condenser (from a 302 base) inside, then you can use the diagram in Reply #1 above (other than the ringer connections since it has a C4A ringer with 4 wires).

The 685A, as furnished with 425-type network, can be used as is. However, you would have to rewire the phone in order to use the C terminal on the network as originally intended.  So it's probably easier to use Bingster's "685-425" diagram, which uses only 4 conductors between the phone and the subset. This has the advantage, as unbeldi has pointed out for 202s, of not having to modify the phone. That way, it can be connected to the correct 634A, 684A or 302 base at a later date without changing the wiring in the phone yet again.

Reference:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.msg9309#msg9309

[gands-antiques]

I wired in the 685A subset and the  phone won't do anything but the subset rings when the number is called.

I had to transfer everything over to a different base and stem because the transmitter was rotated (clocked) a few degrees clockwise and the transmitter was a few degrees clockwise relative to the center of the dial. The perch is correct and the alignment pin in the base was engaged with the slot in the stem so I didn't know how to correct the alignment. I may have messed up the wire locations in the tree when I transferred everything.

Thanks,
Gary

[poplar1]

Gary, did you have it working with the 302 base? Are you using a 5-conductor harness from the base to the hookswitch and transmitter?

Here is a photo  showing the base of a 151-AL. I'll try to find a photo of the hookswitch.

Harness:
(BLUE) from B on hookswitch to B-Y on left terminal block
(YELLOW) from  Y on hookswitch to Y on dial
(RED) from  YY-R on hookswitch to R on right terminal block
(DOUBLE BLUE) from BB on hookswitch to BB on dial
(BLACK) from Transmitter to BK on dial

Other transmitter wire to YY-R on hookswitch

Receiver to GN on right terminal block and W on dial

From subset:
Green to GN right terminal block
Red to R on right terminal block
Yellow to B-Y on left terminal block
Black to BK on dial  (Ignore the "Y-BK" terminal drawn on the diagram)
Yellow to B-Y on left terminal block

[gands-antiques]

Thanks Poplar,

It wasn't working with the 302 base. I got a dial tone without a subset connected but that was before I changed the base and stem.

I changed out the 5 cord out with a new 4 cord.

The instructions and picture helps a lot and a picture of the hook sold be great too.

I won't be able I to work on it for a day or two and I'll let you know how it goes when I complete all of the instructions you gave me.

Thanks again!!
Gary

[poplar1]

Here's the 151-AL rack as promised. Note there are are 4 contact springs, not 3, in the hookswitch.

[poplar1]

Here's a better picture from Sargeguy:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3492.msg47425#msg47425

[gands-antiques]

I finally got back to working on my 151AL & 685A subset wiring and I got it all to work last night.

Much thanks to Poplar for all of the information and supporting photographs provided of the 151AL base and rack wiring. Fantastic help!!

Thanks a lot!!
Gary

[Jack Aman]

Poplar, I wired a D1 to a 685 subset a while ago using your excellent guidance and a five-lead cable.  Question:  Is there an audible or functional difference between a five-wire connection and the four-wire connection illustrated here when using a 685 or 302 base?  Thanks.

[unbeldi]

Poplar, I wired a D1 to a 685 subset a while ago using your excellent guidance and a five-lead cable.  Question:  Is there an audible or functional difference between a five-wire connection and the four-wire connection illustrated here when using a 685 or 302 base?  Thanks.

I know your Q is directed to Poplar1, but let me state my experience with this, as I am an advocate of the four-wire method when it comes to using an old desk stand, B1, D1 with an authentic three- or four-wire mounting cord, when no authentic subset can be found.

Some people adamantly state that a five-conductor cord is required to use a 425-type network with a 202- or 211-type handset telephone, because the 1960s and 1970s BSP prescribe that. Fact is, BSPs were written to apply the currently available technology to the telephone plant, and not to preserve historical accuracy of the equipment. There was no reason for them to do so, and there is no secret that the 425-type network performs better in a wider range of applications. But this is not the collectors' mission, we usually like nice old, cotton- and silk-covered cords, even if brittle, with their original date stamps and such, and sometimes we like the funky sounds of the past, such as the clicking of an old No. 2 or No. 4 dial.

The five-conductor cord with the 425-type network essentially enables the automatic line equalization before the network. This is illustrated in the attached two diagram.  It also makes use of the full inductance of the primary winding of the induction coil.  In the 425 network, the primary winding is split into two parts, each being connected to each side of the loop, and the transmitter is placed between them.  In the scheme using a four-conductor cord we must sacrifice one of these halves of the primary coil and only use one. This reduces the primary inductance (only half the number of wire turns), and thus it increases the transformation ratio between primary and secondary coils of the hybrid.

The effect of this is a very slight increase in audio volume. It is perceptible when switching the feature on and off, which is easy to accomplish with a switch.  The human ear has a logarithmic response curve, so in order to provide a useful increase in volume one has to double the power output.

I have found the slight increase in volume actually beneficial, because many old telephones have receivers that are not as efficient as modern, or even 500-type sets, and usually don't sound as loud. I have conducted lengthy telephone conversations via the Collector's Network (C*Net) using such a setup and the other side did not know about it until the end of the conversions, and did not notice anything unusual.

The first image is for the 4-conductor method, and the second for the 5-conductor setup.  The added wire is the BLUE wire and it should be fairly obvious how this works.    The switches are coded by the standard short-form symbols:  a cross for a normally open switch, and a simple bar for a normally closed switch.   DP is dial pulse, HS is hookswitch, and DS is off-normal dial switch.