Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair => Topic started by: carl on July 05, 2009, 07:09:27 PM

Title: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 05, 2009, 07:09:27 PM
Hi everyone..well I'm back with a new problem.I recently got a 1970 princess phone, number 702 which works but wont ring.I did find
a schematic here but I'm unable to comprehend it thanks to my limited brain capacity and I was wondering if someone could give me
some basic...I mean basic info on how to get this nice little rotary phone to ring.There are several colors of wires and if I could just
switch red to black or green to yellow or something like that I can handle it.Thank you,Carl
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: bingster on July 05, 2009, 07:39:16 PM
What sort of plug is at the end of the line cord?
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 05, 2009, 07:46:23 PM
Hi..it was a four prong but I changed it to a modular adaptor,matching the red,green,black wires to the new plug in adaptor.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: bingster on July 05, 2009, 08:41:45 PM
Okay, open up your adapter, and put the phone's yellow conductor AND the phone's green conductor under the green screw.  Try the phone, and see if that fixes the problem
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 05, 2009, 09:21:45 PM
Success! Thank you very much! Carl NYC
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Dennis Markham on July 05, 2009, 09:23:31 PM
Dr. Bingster, that was easy!  :)
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: bingster on July 05, 2009, 09:44:53 PM
Actually, a while after I posted that, I realized there was a good chance it wouldn't work.  Since the yellow and black conductors are usually for energizing the lamp, they yellow shouldn't be part of the ringing circuit.  Odd that it worked. :-\
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: jsowers on July 06, 2009, 07:59:23 AM
Not odd at all, Dr. Bingster. Look closely at a hard-wired 702 and you will see the yellow wire hooks to the same screw as the black wire of the ringer, on the G terminal. It's the white and black pair that light the lamp. Hard-wired 702s have a 5-conductor mounting cord. I vaguely remembered that being the case, but I confess I took my moss green 4-67 702B off the shelf and looked inside to make sure. So your advice was 100% correct. Send Carl the bill.  ;)
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 06, 2009, 10:47:33 AM
I actually have a touchtone princess but the wiring is quite different so I knew
if I went to the experts on this site,I'd be able to get the right info in a manner
which I could understand,which I did....I was also able to get my also newly
acquired #500 black desktop to ring,simply by following the advice someone
had posted about moving a black wire to another wire,so that also worked
out well for a novice like me.Anyway,thanks to all for the info and I know
when another problem comes up I'll know where to look for the answer.Carl
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 08, 2009, 07:20:11 AM
I don't know how this happened but all of a sudden the phone stopped
working,as in no dial tone.After I had gotten it to ring,and leaving it apart overnight,I  put the top back on
and reconnected it and it simply refused to work.I'm sure I didn't touch anything or move any wire,other than the ringing set up.I wonder if someone can tell
me what happened and could offer a repair suggestion.Very frustrating,
since it was working and ringing perfectly just the night before.
Again,thank you,Carl
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: bingster on July 08, 2009, 12:32:23 PM
Try taking the phone apart again, just as it was when it last worked.  Does it work again?  If it does, then something may be shorting out when you put the cover on.  Check all the wiring in the phone to see that the spade lugs are well clear of each other and clear of other nearby screws.  Also make sure all the screws are tightened down.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Dennis Markham on July 08, 2009, 01:35:38 PM
It's my fault Bingster, because I said the fix was easy.  I jinxed it!
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Jester on July 08, 2009, 02:43:50 PM
I've run into this before on the princess-- are the plungers moving up as you remove the handset from the cradle?  If they are not, the chances are good that a slot on one or both of them misaligned with the fork underneath and the plungers are bound inside the cover.  Remove it and turn the cover over to check that both plungers move freely.  I'd also check all connections as Bingster suggested-- just to be sure.  When you're ready to put the cover back on, turn it upside down-- this will ensure the plungers can't get caught by the switchfork-- and assemble the base to the cover in this manner.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 08, 2009, 08:43:44 PM
I'll keep trying...so far nothing but we'll see.I really do appreciate the time and effort coming from this site.I'll keep you apprised of
any changes.Carl.. NYC
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Dennis Markham on July 08, 2009, 10:35:16 PM
Carl, I know you said you don't get a dial tone but when plugged in, call the phone with a cell phone if you can, just for grins to see if it rings.  It is possible the problem is in the handset, handset cord or receiver.  It seems unlikely that the U1 receiver piece is bad but perhaps a wire lead is off.  Even though you don't have a dial tone (because you don't hear one) use the phone to dial, say your cell phone.  See if it's dialing out.  Also, try a plugging it into another jack, if possible.  Could be a line cord/plug issue too.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: McHeath on July 09, 2009, 12:43:22 AM
My dud of a 500, the one the bugs lived in for what looked like decades, had multiple issues with cords.  Seems that they all were bad, moisture had gotten in and ruined both line cord and handset cord, so who knows, maybe you have something up there as well. 
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 09, 2009, 04:42:05 PM
It's really amazing.I took your advice and actually called my cell phone with it and my cell phone started ringing! So now I'm just
wondering,could the problem be in the handset? Best,Carl
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 09, 2009, 08:45:29 PM
This is really mystifying! I called my home phone from my cell and....it rang!  but still no dial tone.Ohhh! What did I do wrong?
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Phonesrfun on July 09, 2009, 09:05:09 PM
Something is causing your receiver to not work.  I could be a LOT of things.  Bad receiver, bad wiring; a wire disconnected, the two white wires shorted together at the network; the dial shunt springs not opening; or the switchhook shunt springs not opening  (The latter two are not as likely) or just a mis-adjusted switchhook, or maybe a couple of other not-so-likely things.

You just need to go at it one at a time and see.  If you have another WE phone you can take the receiver capsule out of, try swapping that to see if the receiver element is at least ok or not.  You kind of have to work your way backwards through it.

When you call your cell from the princess, talk in the princess mouthpiece and see if you can hear yourself on the cell.  If that works, that will at least isolate it to the receiver circuit only within the princess.

-Bill
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 09, 2009, 09:11:01 PM
Bill,I have another princess phone from 1985 as opposed to the troubled one which says 1965 on it and I was thinking about switching the ear speaker,although it is not exactly a
twin,as  it's of course the same size,two wires but it seems to have a couple of extras on it.How does that sound?
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 09, 2009, 09:17:41 PM
I did speak into the princess and heard myself on the cell,so it's coming along as far as the process of elimination.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 09, 2009, 09:31:54 PM
Okay..I got it! The ear piece was the culprit.I switched it with the other princess and got the dial tone,so all I need is another one.
Thanks..and I mean THANK YOU.Best,Carl NYC
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Dennis Markham on July 09, 2009, 09:33:53 PM
Carl, glad you got that straightened out.  If you need a new U1 ear piece, I have some.  Just send me a PM and I'll coordinate with you.

Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 09, 2009, 09:47:20 PM
Great! I may have accesss to one here,but if not I'll get back to you.Again,thanks and...BOY! do I need a breather.Carl
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: JorgeAmely on July 09, 2009, 09:55:17 PM
Can you take a few pictures of the network area from various angles to help identify where the problem might be?

:( :( :(
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: carl on July 11, 2009, 07:24:40 PM
Thanks to this club I have been able to resolve some problems with a few of my old phones,the latest of which was the princess
refusing to ring,then playing with my feeble brain,refusing to provide a dial tone,both of which now resolved,and the latter problem
being solved just today with my purchase for just a few dollars of a rotary wallmount unit which 'donated' an earpiece. Best,Carl NYC
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Phonesrfun on July 11, 2009, 07:56:04 PM
Quote from: carl on July 11, 2009, 07:24:40 PM
Thanks to this club I have been able to resolve some problems with a few of my old phones,the latest of which was the princess
refusing to ring,then playing with my feeble brain,refusing to provide a dial tone,both of which now resolved,and the latter problem
being solved just today with my purchase for just a few dollars of a rotary wallmount unit which 'donated' an earpiece. Best,Carl NYC

Yes, one thing you will come to find out in phone collecting is that if you go for a certain brand, like Western or whatever, its nice to have a couple of donor carcasses lying around.

-Bill
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Jester on July 11, 2009, 09:16:01 PM
Bill,

In the days before internet & easy access to wiring diagrams, I even used my donor phones as "schematics", which helped me reconnect or replace the missing parts on many of my "keepers".
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Phonesrfun on July 11, 2009, 11:30:18 PM
Jester:

Oh yes!  I still remember how I totally screwed up my parent's phone one day by completely taking it apart.  Every part, every wire.  Completely.   It was a 500. 

In the '60's one did not dare call the phone company and tell them we had been in the phone doing little experiments, or totally dismantling it.  That was kind of like calling the police and admitting a robbery or something of that magnitude.

I had to convince my best friend's mom to let me come over and take the cover off their phone and I drew a very detailed picture of how to hook all the wires back up to the network.  Seems like it took a couple excursions at the time back and forth, but I eventually got it.

Oh the thrill!

-BIll

Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Dennis Markham on July 13, 2009, 12:38:12 AM
Bill that is a great story.  At least you were sharp enough to solve the problem on your own.  It's interesting that you had an inquisitive mind for telephones at a young age. 
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Phonesrfun on July 13, 2009, 12:45:47 AM
My "inquisitive mind" was always getting me into trouble!

-Bill
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Jester on July 13, 2009, 09:01:18 AM
I can definitely relate to that, Bill.  Although I never tore the family phone completely down all at once.  I took the safer route of removing one assembly at a time, studying and reconnecting.  It's much easier to remember where 4 wires go than 20.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: HobieSport on July 13, 2009, 01:20:37 PM
I never thought of looking inside our family 554 phone as a child, as it was phone company property, but Dad used to give me non-working wind-up alarm clocks and I'd tear them down in fascination, but never reassembled them. Later I rebuilt our antique coo coo clock and an old piano. That was fun, but didn't involve wires or electronics. I probably would have loved fixing old phones as a kid. Well...better late than never. :)
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: bingster on July 13, 2009, 10:21:36 PM
I think I've mentioned once before that I disassembled my first phone, a '57 black 500, and that I didn't get it properly back together until about a year ago.  If I had Bill's presence of mind, I'd have had it fixed long before then.  Ah well, at least it works fine, now. :)
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: NYFED on August 05, 2009, 10:29:38 PM
BINGSTER: Just got a black princess phone...model 702BM. Cleaned it up, bought a tranformer and wiring adapter, plugged it in, called (using my cell) and VOILA! It rang. There is a dial tone.....however....when you dial out, after the second number is dialed, I get the "your call cannot be completed as dialed" message.  Any ideas? I changed the wire leading into the phone from the adapter. Same thing. Light works. I just don't have a clue. Any suggestions? THANKS!
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: Phonesrfun on August 06, 2009, 02:20:41 AM
Question for NYFED:

Did it dial out successfully before you got the transformer?

If this is the first time trying it, then another question is who is your dial tone provider?  Is it an actual telephone company, or do you have internet phone service through your internet provider?  Some internet phone providers' routers do not do well at interpreting pulse (rotary) dialing.

If that is the case, it is probably not a wiring problem and needs to be solved in other, more elaborate ways.


Bill
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: bingster on August 06, 2009, 04:49:49 AM
Another thing to try is determining how long it takes the dial to come to a stop after you dial a zero.  It should take about one second.  If it takes significantly more OR less time to make a full return, that will cause this problem, too.
Title: Re: My Princess phone wont ring
Post by: NYFED on August 06, 2009, 10:03:02 AM
PHONESRFUN and BINGSTER: I use VoIP. However, before we look at that route: I have a TP-6A (Toaster phone), a 354, an AE40 and a 302 all hooked up in my house; they all work fine and my cable company supports pulse dialing. 
The phone had a dial tone before the transformer but I never attempted to dial out with it.  I'm going to move the phone to another jack and see if that does anything and remove the transformer from the equation. I will let you guys know what happens. Thanks!