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Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Re: Help in Wiring a Western E...
Last post by RDPipes - November 27, 2022, 04:35:35 PM
I think I just figured it out, someone has had their busy little fingers in here.
The frayed wire on the "W" of the #6 dial is where the handset wire (white) that is connected to the "Y" of the dial is suppose to be and the cut off hook switch wire should be on the "Y" where the handset wire (white) is now. Someone has the dial wired like its a #5H instead of a #6 which it is, at least that's what I think. Can anyone confirm? Handset cord may have been replaced by a novice, they screwed up, couldn't getting working and quit. At least I'm hoping that, LOL! I need to replace the hook-switch so I wanna make sure I got this right before hand.
Telephone Component Identification / Re: Is this 500C/D from Januar...
Last post by AliceWonder - November 27, 2022, 04:29:11 PM
Okay thanks.
Telephone Component Identification / Re: Is this 500C/D from Januar...
Last post by paul-f - November 27, 2022, 04:20:18 PM
The original date is under the black paint blob under the "500." You may be able to make it out if you look at the set closely. (Hard to see in a photo.)

Stampings in vermillion ink were added when the phone was returned for refurb.

The date on the network inside is usually a good indication of the original assembly date (for sets made after about 1952).

Some background info on 500-series model numbers and markings is available here:
Telephone Component Identification / Is this 500C/D from January 19...
Last post by AliceWonder - November 27, 2022, 04:01:41 PM
I have the 354 as my first phone but I still want a black 500CD. Found one on Facebook Market that looks like it has a damaged dial and scratched (but not cracked) housing and thus is cheap (under $25 including shipping), but the only reason I might want to start with one with a visibly broken dial is if the month matched my birth month - and this one might.

Did WE omit the leading 0 on months, or is the leading digit warn off making this ambiguous?

Thank you for comments. Image is from the Facebook marketplace.
To add to the above lighting harness, a 5 conductor Princess line cord typically has red, green, yellow, black and red. The red and green are the phone line (L2 and L1), the yellow conductor is for grounded ringing and the black and white conductors are for 6 VDC power to the dial lamp.

The yellow conductor is attached to the "G" terminal on the network. This is for grounded ringing and must be changed for use with modern Red/Green conductor line cords which no longer use grounded ringing.

While this change from grounded ringing to bridged ringing can be done at the line cord wall connector, the better way is to remove the yellow conductor from the network "G" terminal and tape it off (a piece of shrink wrap works great). A short strap (wire conductor) is used to connect the network "G" terminal to the "L1" terminal. This is needed because while the black ringer wire on "G" could be moved to "L1," the black ringer wire is too short to make it to "L1." As such, the conversion using a short wire conductor, with spade lugs on each end, to connect the "G" to "L2" is an easily built, permanently conversion. After that, red and green from the line cord attached to "L2" and "L1" will ring the phone.


And if it is necessary to change out the original round 5 conductor line cord (if cut off or damaged) to a modular 4 conductor cord (with red, green, black and yellow conductors), these are the lengths needed for the red and green (phone line) and black and yellow (6 VDC power conductors for the GE-259 or equivalent lamp). It's easier to measure out the conductors and put spade lugs on them before feeding the modular line cord into the phone. The red and green are 2.5" long, the yellow and black (lamp power) are 8" long. The original yellow grounded yellow conductor is not needed (per above) so the modular yellow conductor takes the place of the original 5 conductor cord white conductor.

The original round cord restraint, if present, can be removed and attached to the modular cord as its restraint.
Diagram Requests / Re: Wanted: Wiring Diagram for...
Last post by RDPipes - November 27, 2022, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: paul-f on November 27, 2022, 03:18:52 PMIs this the one you found? It's not simple, but the most info is probably in this connections BSP:

Yeah, That's the one I found Paul.
I'm way to use to the other kind these can be confusing when dealing with as much wiring as the WE444EC has.
I tried using a basic one for a 302 just looking at the Ind, Hks, DL and Cond. but that won't work.
Got cut and broken wires I don't know where they go here:
Telephone Troubleshooting and Repair / Help in Wiring a Western Elect...
Last post by RDPipes - November 27, 2022, 03:25:26 PM
Just received this phone and found one wire from the hook switch that looks to be cut off (I stripped it back to figure out which contact it went to). And one other wire from the "W" of the #6 dial torn off, at least it looks that way. Both are circled in the photo. Now normally with a 302 I wouldn't have this problem but, being I can't find the other corresponding ends to the wires and where the wires would normally go there is already a wire there, I'm at a bit of a stand still and puzzled, that and I'm colorblind so I must use a multimeter to track wiring down. Thank you for any help.
Diagram Requests / Re: Wanted: Wiring Diagram for...
Last post by paul-f - November 27, 2022, 03:18:52 PM
Quote from: RDPipes on November 27, 2022, 01:55:47 PMLooking for a wiring diagram for a Western Electric 444EC I downloaded one from TCI ...
Is this the one you found? It's not simple, but the most info is probably in this connections BSP:

Dial Repair & Lubrication / Re: Best Dial Oil?
Last post by bdoss2006 - November 27, 2022, 03:06:19 PM
Quote from: TelePlay on November 26, 2022, 11:09:28 AMWhile this probably won't help you directly with your dial, it will show similarities to what your dial looked like before taking it apart.

It's always very helpful to take a few before pictures from different angles and then taking one thing apart at a time and taking a photo of the part and where it came from. Such step by step images always help with putting the dial back together.

I don't see a governor spring in your images and it is hard to see what the small parts are in relation to your macro image, the small parts are not in the same image size so hard to tell if the two half-round parts are the  governor brakes or not, or what holds them in the governor or how that are turned (I suspect with that oblong piece in the upper right of your second picture.

At least you left the finger wheel on so the dial mainspring has not been released leaving it up to you to figure out how the parts do together. For example, that white shaft with two wings, a gear at one end and two axle bearing points seem to be the part that turns the governor so it would fit somewhere (below where the governor raceway would sit when assembled correctly - I think that large piece on the right is 180 degree in relation to the gear train image) into the gear train and the bearing point and the governor raceway bearing point.

Not having to deal with the tension of the mainspring, it should be possible for you to piece it together. After all, the phone companies just hired people off of the street to assemble phones so it doesn't take an engineer to do this work. Had you slowly take it apart examining each piece and its function before lifting the gear train plate off, it would have been easier to put back together.

These are images of a working WE #8A dial that is similar to yours and may help you figure out how to put it back together, or send it to Steve Hilsz and let him do it for you.

well I managed to get the governor back together and the dial works ok, it maybe a little fast though. But now I can't get it to do anything if I take it off the hook there is no dial tone and if I have another phone plugged in when I pick it up it still has a dial tone. I for some reason won't take it off the hook. I used and ohm meter and the switch hook appears to be fine (so does the button on the handset). What could be the problem?
Diagram Requests / Wanted: Wiring Diagram for WE ...
Last post by RDPipes - November 27, 2022, 01:55:47 PM
Looking for a wiring diagram for a Western Electric 444EC I downloaded one from TCI but, I would like one
a bit more simplified like the more common ones you find. I'm colorblind and ones that illustrate using only colors are no good to me sadly. Anyone have one?