WECO 236G Issues

[Sargeguy]

I hooked up my 236G to the payphone controller sold by Stan "gray-western' on eBay.  The controller appears to work fine, the issues I am having are with the phone, which is dated 1965 and is complete as removed from service.

Issue 1:  Cannot hear anything.  Phone dials out and wife can hear me speaking to her on her cell but the receiver doesn't appear to be working.  Any tips for unscrewing the caps on the G-3?

Issue 2:  Coin chute jams.  Phone still dials out but coins do not drop anymore.  The did for the first few coins but that was it.  Any maintenance lubrication tips?

Issue 3:  Loose purple wire that is not connected to anything.  Where does it go?

Issue 4:  I have a barrel cam lock that secures the upper housing to the rest of the phone.  What is the hole next to it for?  Another barrel cam lock???

Thanks

[Sargeguy]

Also, any suggestions for how to wire the internal ringer to by-pass the controller would be appreciated.

[DavePEI]

I hooked up my 236G to the payphone controller sold by Stan "gray-western' on eBay.  The controller appears to work fine, the issues I am having are with the phone, which is dated 1965 and is complete as removed from service.

Issue 1:  Cannot hear anything.  Phone dials out and wife can hear me speaking to her on her cell but the receiver doesn't appear to be working.  Any tips for unscrewing the caps on the G-3?

Issue 2:  Coin chute jams.  Phone still dials out but coins do not drop anymore.  The did for the first few coins but that was it.  Any maintenance lubrication tips?

Issue 3:  Loose purple wire that is not connected to anything.  Where does it go?

Issue 4:  I have a barrel cam lock that secures the upper housing to the rest of the phone.  What is the hole next to it for?  Another barrel cam lock???

Thanks

A couple of notes.... I'll deal with the coin chute first... Carefully remove the chute from the front section of the phone. There are thumbscrews which allow you to do this. Coins will sometimes jam near the coin gauge. If they drop out, carefully re-install the mechanism. It could have simply be mis-aligned.

If the problem is actually in the escrow-relay area, they will either be visible, or can be made to fall by manually operating the relay. Check both areas.

The caps maybe glued on your G3 handset. Try using a small strap wrench to remove it and try a known good receiver in it. If it isn't this, if may be in a line going to the dial - contacts which aren't making good contact in the dial itself. I ran into this on my QSD-3A.

The locks, I cant comment on as I don't have any of my phones with a barrel lock...

I have placed a schematic for the phone below.

Dave

[DavePEI]

Another hint... At question is the receiver in the handset. To check this out without risking damage to the handset remove the two white wires to the handset Note first where they came from. Using clip leads, tap those leads against a small battery. If you get no click, you will know the problem is in the cord or in the handset, most likely in the receive element.

If you do get clicks, the problem is elsewhere.

Dave

[AE_Collector]

Handset caps were frequently glued on in the field AND some newer replacement handsets came with caps already glued on. I've found that the ones glued in the field can quite often be removed relatively easily with a strap wrench or even with those aluminum handled handset cap tools. However, I have twisted the threads right off of the actual handset while trying to remove a cap, particularly on factory glued handsets.

In the field there was no end to the gummed up, jambed up coin chutes even in single slot phones and 3 slot phones are just that much worse. Getting everything nice and clean in there is the first step. Operating the coin relay by hand will generally drop the coins one way or the other (into the box or the coin return) but just push gently on it. It is easy to damage the relay if it isn't sitting just right when you push on it.

Generally on 3 slot payphones the original style upper housing locks (in the centre side to side) were flimsy and it was quite easy to pry the housing up and release the upper housing from the lower housing. The later addition of the locks that are off center to the right was to prevent this.

Terry

[Sargeguy]

Thanks. 

I already tried the strap wrench and hairdryer on the handset with no effect.  There is a faint click in the receiver as I hang up.

I shook a few pennies out of the upper housing.  The coins now pass the chutes with no problem but sit in the relay until it is activated by hand.  Hanging up or pushing the coin return has no effect. 

Found the other end of the purple wire and fixed it-no effect. 

[AE_Collector]

Coins being held in the Escrow position is what it should do if not connected to anything. If it were hooked to a coin telphone line OR presumably your Coin Controller, the coins should refund or collect once the handset is hung up. I have no experience with the controller but presumably it needs to be set up for the type of phone you have, Post Pay, Pre Pay or Semi Post Pay.

As for the receiver, how about connecting a seperate receiver capsule inside the phone where the white wires from the handset connect so you can determine if it is a receiver capsule/handset problem OR something inside the phone itself leading to the quiet or almost non existant volume level.

Terry

[DavePEI]

Thanks.  

I already tried the strap wrench and hairdryer on the handset with no effect.  There is a faint click in the receiver as I hang up.

It would still be a good idea for you to try the test from inside the phone (i.e. the two white wires), especially since it would appear that it is a glued handset. They can be broken, and before you take that chance, it is best to verify that the problem is within the cord, handset or receiver before taking the chance of breaking the handset.

Terry's idea of clip leading a known good receiver to the phone chassis is a good idea. I suspect your problem is inside the phone, or a controller problem - this will eliminate any unnecessary damage. Handsets aren't expensive, but better if you can save the one on it.

I most suspect a controller problem, and it would be a good idea to go through the controller documentation for any hints.

I am attaching another and possible better diagram of the phone below. Click on it to enlarge it, or download it directly to your machine to print.

Dave

[DavePEI]

Just for interest's sake, temporarily disconnect the wires to the coil of the coin relay, and check it for continuity with a DVM. If it has opened up, that could cause several of the symptoms you are getting.

Dave

[Sargeguy]

Thanks,
I tinkered with the phone a bit.  I didn't bother testing the receiver because I could hear faint clicks when I dialed, hung up, put coins in etc., so I assumed it was good.  I am completely inept with a multi-meter, and have misplaced mine anyway.  I poked around and noticed that the top switch in the switch pile remained open when I hung up,  I pushed it closed and got dial tone.  A little bending with the pliers fixed the problem and the phone works fine except that the coins don't drop unless manually activated.  The coin return does not have any effect either. There is a small clamp on the side of the upper housing that looks like a ground, I cannot see from looking at either diagram what purpose it serves.  I'm checking the BSP

[DavePEI]

A little bending with the pliers fixed the problem and the phone works fine except that the coins don't drop unless manually activated.  The coin return does not have any effect either.

There is a small clamp on the side of the upper housing that looks like a ground, I cannot see from looking at either diagram what purpose it serves.  I'm checking the BSP

Ok, glad you have made some progress. I believe you did say the first few coins you put through the phone did drop correctly. That means then it was working correctly (insofar as controller/escrow/coin relay).

Now, you said you had a purple wire which had been disconnected - you didn't mention where it had come from at the connected end. See if you can find it on the drawing and verify that you did get it back on the correct place.

I know that you are saying the controller is working correctly, and obviously it did - for a while. Do you have another phone you can verify correct operation before you too much drastic to this phone? The reason I persist on this is new items can fail during burn-in, and it may have ceased functioning properly.

The same goes for the escrow/coin relay. If it is getting the pulse to operate from the controller, your problem is there. You do need to verify that there is nothing jamming the escrow, and that the coin relay's coil and the resistor mounted on it haven't opened up. It can, and does happen,

When the relay should operate, do you hear it make any sounds? Does it try to operate? Is it a single coil relay? I will post a document on WE single coil relays which might help further below this message.

As to the ground connector you found, I suspect it was exactly that. Most area electrical codes did require a ground directly to the phone - it is likely exactly this, but of course, I haven't seen it in person on your phone.

Don't worry - it is a pain, but we all run into problems like this, and things don't always go by the book.

I may be in the same situation myself soon - soon I will be converting a single slot AE payphone for home use, and I have never worked on one of them either, but have worked on several AE 3-Slots - God knows what problems I will run into converting it. I won't be using it with a controller, so it may be interesting, as so far as I know, no-one has published directions for converting them. However, when I do work it out, I will make sure I put on a page on converting them..

All part of the fun!

I am attaching those documents on the NE/WE style single coil relay, as it explains their operation clearly. Although an AE document, it shows the WE/NE style single coil relay, and if it doesn't help you, I am sure they will be helpful to others.

Dave

[G-Man]

Issue 3:  Loose purple wire that is not connected to anything.  Where does it go?

Please be aware that Western Electric did not use purple in its colour code but used violet (V) instead.

I mention this not to nit-pick but to make you aware so you don't become frustrated trying to find it on the schematic Dave H. so kindly provided.

[DavePEI]

Issue 3:  Loose purple wire that is not connected to anything.  Where does it go?

Please be aware that Western Electric did not use purple in its colour code but used violet (V) instead.

I mention this not to nit-pick but to make you aware so you don't become frustrated trying to find it on the schematic Dave H. so kindly provided.

That is why I asked him where the OTHER end went, so we can determine for certain which wire on the schematic it was.

Anther case of things don't always go by the book

Dave

[G-Man]

Issue 3:  Loose purple wire that is not connected to anything.  Where does it go?

Please be aware that Western Electric did not use purple in its colour code but used violet (V) instead.

I mention this not to nit-pick but to make you aware so you don't become frustrated trying to find it on the schematic Dave H. so kindly provided.

That is why I asked him where the OTHER end went, so we can determine for certain which wire on the schematic it was.

Anther case of things don't always go by the book

Dave

The error was in the description and not in the "book" so there is no reason to thing the book is wrong in this case.

Of course it could be immensely helpful in knowing were the other end was connected but in the case of several wires connected to the same terminal it could still be confusing.

Knowing how the color is properly described as well where one end is connected is vital to helping him repair his instrument.

In this instance, I suspect the wire connects the ringer. That is most likely why he thought it did not have any effect when he re-connected it.

[Sargeguy]

Yes I know, I couldn't make up my mind if it was slate or violet.  Under good light with my glasses on it actually looks like alternating violet-slate.  There are two other violet wires in the same harness.  It disappears behind the relay, the other end goes into the pin connector that attaches to the wiring harness to the upper housing,  I detached it to do a better repair job and lost dial tone.  Here are some of photos

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