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E-Bay Listing - Home Improvement or Phone Disaster?

Started by Slal, August 27, 2014, 10:59:54 AM

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Slal

Ran across following on the e-bay.  item # 281422440624

Hope this kind of thing doesn't happen too often.

Phone's from 1958 and appeared to have a lot going for it. 

Then I saw the back.  What did he do that for?

Wouldn't he have been better off getting some 3 conductor line cord from PhoneCo or even some flat 4 conductor cord from local electronics store? 

Curious what you veterans think.

1.) What would phone have been worth if someone hadn't cut into the original housing?

2.) What's it worth now?

--Bruce

Kenton K

What a shame. I do know it can be repaired, its been done in the past.

KK

Slal

Aqua isn't not my color, but a chance to learn something today. ; )

How can it be repaired?

jsowers

That modular connector could have been put on many years ago by an installer with a notch tool. Chances are the seller didn't do it. I've seen several done this way and I've been surprised by one or two that I didn't know were modular until they arrived, if the pictures weren't good. Nobody ever considered originality to be an asset back in the 1970s and 80s and modular was looked upon as an improvement.

It could be repaired, but not easily. I've seen posts on the Forum where others have melted small pieces of plastic and tried to form it back into a hole. The repair probably won't make it worth any more since it wouldn't be original. It's really bad when they don't do a decent job of notching the hole, or crack the housing in the process.
Jonathan

poplar1

Conversions made in the field are discussed in Section 503-100-100, Issue 4, page 8:

4.01 Conversions
...
(7) For desk telephone sets, modify base pan of telephone set when required to install handset and/or mounting cord jacks per figures 36 through 45.

...

(9) On sets requiring no housing change, install a notched housing. If a notched housing is not available, punch housing per figures 46, 47 and 48.


http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2995-503-100-100-i4-jul77-telephone-sets-modular-type-tl





"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Greg G.

#5
I'm surprised there's no refurb date markings or stickers on it.  The only indication of any refurb date is the receiver element appears to be from 3-64. The notch was definitely done with a notching tool and not by an end user, otherwise it would look a lot worse.  I'm also wondering why they put a date stamp on the receiver cup that doesn't match the actual manufacture year embossed on the cup.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

unbeldi

#6
Quote from: Brinybay on August 28, 2014, 01:33:39 PM
I'm surprised there's no refurb date markings or stickers on it.  The only indication of any refurb date is the receiver element appears to be from 3-64. The notch was definitely done with a notching tool and not by an end user, otherwise it would look a lot worse.  I'm also wondering why they put a date stamp on the receiver cup that doesn't match the actual manufacture year embossed on the cup.

This is interesting, because I haven't seen a date dial in the mold for colored handsets that showed a date earlier than 1959 1960. None of my blue ones, stamped 12-57 and 11-58, have the dial.
Could this be a handset from a test run with new molds and the dial was set incorrectly or was not replaceable?

Slal

Beginning to understand why phones with matching dates are so highly sought after.

Interesting that plug was put in by technician & not a "home improvement."  Saw the bottle of glue on table and thought, "What a shame.  Poor guy has just lessened value of his phone thinking he's made an improvement."

Thanks for link to BSP.  Will have to correct my 'time line' by two years.   Had thought 1979 was year "M" suffix introduced for refurbished phones. 

All told, quite a few details to have to look at.  Makes collecting a fun but challenging hobby.  Will probably stick with lower priced "mongrels" until know more.

So here's a question for you.

Any way to distinguish between 7C & 9C dials if number card covering the top?  Only way I have to tell at present is refurbish date on back.  Unless mistaken, 1965 was year they started swapping them out?

thx

--Bruce 

PS:  Lesson to be learned here.  While no "hard plastic" parts or refurbish dates, safe to assume phone is still typical Bell System mixed bag of parts?         

unbeldi

Quote from: Slal on August 28, 2014, 02:53:08 PM
Beginning to understand why phones with matching dates are so highly sought after.

Interesting that plug was put in by technician & not a "home improvement."  Saw the bottle of glue on table and thought, "What a shame.  Poor guy has just lessened value of his phone thinking he's made an improvement."

Thanks for link to BSP.  Will have to correct my 'time line' by two years.   Had thought 1979 was year "M" suffix introduced for refurbished phones. 

All told, quite a few details to have to look at.  Makes collecting a fun but challenging hobby.  Will probably stick with lower priced "mongrels" until know more.

So here's a question for you.

Any way to distinguish between 7C & 9C dials if number card covering the top?  Only way I have to tell at present is refurbish date on back.  Unless mistaken, 1965 was year they started swapping them out?

thx

--Bruce     

You can tell by the size of the slot through the dial face for the finger stop.

poplar1

#9
The second letter M--as in 500DM--refers to "modular," not only for refurbed but also for new sets as early as 1972 or 1973.

1965 is the approximate date for introduction of 9-type dials. However, 7-type dials were often reused on refurbished phones. The refurbed 7Cs and 7Ds usually got new finger wheels and a different finger stop that would accommodate the newer style finger wheel.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Greg G.

#10
Quote from: unbeldi on August 28, 2014, 02:37:39 PM
Quote from: Brinybay on August 28, 2014, 01:33:39 PM
I'm surprised there's no refurb date markings or stickers on it.  The only indication of any refurb date is the receiver element appears to be from 3-64. The notch was definitely done with a notching tool and not by an end user, otherwise it would look a lot worse.  I'm also wondering why they put a date stamp on the receiver cup that doesn't match the actual manufacture year embossed on the cup.

This is interesting, because I haven't seen a date dial in the mold for colored handsets that showed a date earlier than 1959 1960. None of my blue ones, stamped 12-57 and 11-58, have the dial.
Could this be a handset from a test run with new molds and the dial was set incorrectly or was not replaceable?

I checked my 58 Aqua, it's marked the same way, stamped 11-58, but molded receiver cup date of 57.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

unbeldi

#11
Quote from: Brinybay on August 28, 2014, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: unbeldi on August 28, 2014, 02:37:39 PM
Quote from: Brinybay on August 28, 2014, 01:33:39 PM
I'm surprised there's no refurb date markings or stickers on it.  The only indication of any refurb date is the receiver element appears to be from 3-64. The notch was definitely done with a notching tool and not by an end user, otherwise it would look a lot worse.  I'm also wondering why they put a date stamp on the receiver cup that doesn't match the actual manufacture year embossed on the cup.

This is interesting, because I haven't seen a date dial in the mold for colored handsets that showed a date earlier than 1959 1960. None of my blue ones, stamped 12-57 and 11-58, have the dial.
Could this be a handset from a test run with new molds and the dial was set incorrectly or was not replaceable?


I checked my 58 Aqua, it's marked the same way, stamped 11-58, but molded receiver cup date of 57.

I have to correct myself.
I just looked at high resolution archive pictures of a phone I sold, and it too has the mold mark. But it is splattered with ink and I never noticed it at the time.

Yours has the same mold number (35) also, like the eBay phone. Mine was 39.  Very interesting.

But others definitely do not have the mark.

Kenton K

I believe that 58 was the time they started embossing dates. My `6~58 light gray has an embossed receiver piece, but stamped handset and transmitter piece.

Slal

Something else I noticed was the ringer.

Shouldn't the brass tension arm (or whatever the part is called) be up against the gray metal frame?  Otherwise seems like left gong would be loose & might not sound as good.  Hard to explain so attached an illustration.

Finally, kind of overlooked is how much a phone like this is worth.

Compared to most of the other listings I saw, he has a nice phone.  The colors seem to match, no replacement caps, HS, dial, & so on.

Starting bid a tad high or about par for the course?

I might have taken a chance on it for say-- $65.00-- but maybe that's unrealistic since I've only been into this hobby since March. ; )

unbeldi

#14
Quote from: Kenton K on August 28, 2014, 11:23:54 PM
I believe that 58 was the time they started embossing dates. My `6~58 light gray has an embossed receiver piece, but stamped handset and transmitter piece.

I don't think so.  All colored handsets and housings until 12-59 had ink stamps.
What's up with these incorrectly dated ones with a molded mark, we have to find out about by collecting data.
There was someone on the forum here who also cataloged the ink colors used throughout the 50s.

Can you show a picture of the "embossed receiver piece" ?