Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Pay Station Telephones => Topic started by: gonzo1968 on July 17, 2013, 07:18:21 PM

Title: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 17, 2013, 07:18:21 PM
hi all
new here and ty for the add
trying to get info on these payphones i purchased
pics to follow
also trying to convert them to landline and i have spend almost 2 weeks trying to figure out what i need to do.
i have read that all thats needed is connecting to wires(green and red) to a complete conversion.
i am about to go crazy--lol

the phones say BELL-COM
shipped in 1995 from BELL-COM COMMUNICATIONS in florida
Any help--greatly appreciated
ty in advance
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: poplar1 on July 17, 2013, 07:47:38 PM
There may be some screw terminals marked L1, L2 or 1,2 or T, R. This would be where the wire from the outside (red and green usually) would hook up. Follow the wires from the ringer and one of the wires probably goes to the same terminal as one of the incoming line wires.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: poplar1 on July 17, 2013, 07:53:53 PM
It may be the terminal block in the lower left, near the Bel-Com sticker.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 17, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
this is the pins above the coin box next to the ringer
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: poplar1 on July 17, 2013, 08:55:07 PM
Quote from: gonzo1968 on July 17, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
this is the pins above the coin box next to the ringer

I would try hooking up the line to red and green here.

Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: AE_Collector on July 17, 2013, 11:59:22 PM
What is Bell-Com? These are AE style payphones except for the chassis. Are they Protels maybe? In any event, yes the lower left terminal strip ios where the line and ground connects on AE/Protel type payphones.

Terry
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 12:08:40 AM
NORTH MIAMI BEACH, Fla., May 11 /PRNewswire/ -- Bell-Com Communications, Inc. (Bell-Com), one of the nation's largest distributors of private pay telephones, has announced an alliance with Ernest Telecom, a leading manufacturer of pay telephone equipment, and the American School of Pay Telephones and Public Communications, Inc. (ASPPC). These three industry leaders have united to educate individuals and companies that are looking to enter the pay phone or public communications field, knowing that with proper education, assistance and guidance, individuals and companies will become more successful at achieving their goals and aspirations.

Bell-Com is presently assisting seven to eight new clients weekly, with each new client purchasing five to ten payphones. Overall, Bell-Com supports over one thousand phones nationwide for its client base. Due to the rapid success that Bell-Com has enjoyed, they are in the process of opening three additional offices to conduct seminars and schedule training sessions for new clients. An ASPPC education will highlight management, technical and operational skills that are critical to the success of a payphone provider. The ASPPC-provided training will replace services that Bell-Com has been providing to its customers.

The equipment used by Bell-Com is manufactured by Ernest Telecom. Ernest Telecom has manufactured approximately 130,000 pay telephones in its 10 year existence. The featured product, the "7D-3", is the first circuit board in the industry to operate completely from telephone line power. It is also the first product to be managed with a Windows-based program, which allows an individual with little or no experience to effectively manage his or her route.

All Bell-Com clients will reap the benefit of this alliance at no cost.

    -0-                       5/11/95


/CONTACT: Mr. Zimmerman, Bell-Com Communications, 800-940-8455/

CO: Bell-Com Communications, Inc.; Ernest Telecom; American School of

Pay Telephones and Public Communications, Inc. ST: Florida IN: TLS SU:

KM-RK -- FL001 -- 5507 05/11/95 09:11 EDT
COPYRIGHT 1995 PR Newswire Association LLC
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 11:12:40 AM
thank you everyone for response
i connected the green and red from landline to payphone

Payphone rings but i cant make calls or receive them

I called landline(payphone) from my cell --it rings
but when i pickup handset it keeps ringing
and I cant call out

any ideas??
and what are the other 2 wires for --yellow and black??
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: AE_Collector on July 18, 2013, 12:40:51 PM
G-man: reading the "press release" I am thinking "when was this written"!  Ahh 1995. I am sure that things aren't quite that rosy around that Head Office now!

Terry
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: ESalter on July 18, 2013, 12:47:50 PM
My dad and I were talking about this very thing just the other night.  We were talking about all of the payphone refurbishing companies and such that were around in the 90s and how right now there are practically none.  I'm surprised even the newer manufacturers have managed to stay in business.

---Eric
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: poplar1 on July 18, 2013, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 11:12:40 AM
thank you everyone for response
i connected the green and red from landline to payphone

Payphone rings but i cant make calls or receive them

I called landline(payphone) from my cell --it rings
but when i pickup handset it keeps ringing
and I cant call out

any ideas??
and what are the other 2 wires for --yellow and black??

Yellow may be for ground. Do you see a model number on the phone anywhere?
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 02:38:33 PM
the only model number that i see is on the board

EARNEST TELECOMM INC.  MODEL D3
and a sticker that say---DP6492 also on the board

but nothing on the actual phone
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 02:47:09 PM
Some Random Thoughts-

The reason that I included the whole press release is to provide context and contact information even though I don't know if any of it is valid at this point. Have you tried to contact Ernest or Bell-Com yet?

If they are no longer supporting it you may have a brick or perhaps payphones.com or 411payphones may be able to assist you.

If so, you will first need to confirm that your instrument has a 7D-3 board. I believe Dave Hunter went through a similar problem with a 7D-1 board so you may want to contact him to see if he how he was able to resolve his problems.

The payphone in the photo still has plastic around the bottom and the original box it was shipped in can be seen in the background. It looks as if it is new and has the original keys as well. A manual should have also been included. Who did you acquire your payphones from? Can they assist you?

Since these are smart payphones they may need to be programmed first. Also, what type of line are you connecting them to? Since it is most likely line powered (some weren't despite the press release) then the line will need to provide a certain level of voltage and current. Also, the on-board memory battery may have to be charged by leaving the payphone connected to the telephone line or it may have to be replaced.

Instead of being forced to purchase Ernest Telelink programming software for $400-bucks or so, at one time they would program your phone over the telephone line for about $20.00.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 04:20:59 PM
You say you cannot make calls nor receive them.

In attempting to make a call, when you lift the handset do you hear a dial-tone or is the line totally dead? When you blow into the transmitter can you hear yourself?

As far as answering a call, often that is a programmable feature. In some neighborhoods the police insisted that the ability to answer incoming calls be disabled in order to discourage the use of payphones for drug dealing.

Quote from: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 11:12:40 AM
thank you everyone for response
i connected the green and red from landline to payphone

Payphone rings but i cant make calls or receive them

I called landline(payphone) from my cell --it rings
but when i pickup handset it keeps ringing
and I cant call out

any ideas??
and what are the other 2 wires for --yellow and black??
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 06:08:47 PM
this is becoming a nightmare--lol

no dialtone amd when i blow on it --nothing

payphones.com will not program ernest boards
emailed 411payphone  they do but waiting for reply

bell-com is no longer in exitence

these are NIB never installed and i am guessing never programmed for install--no manual
got them off craigslist

i think its a d3 board
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 06:20:21 PM
And of course you connected the telephone line to the green and red wires.

Even though it should be dtf, try depositing a quarter when you go off-hook.

It may not be a D3 board and instead may require external power. If so then the yellow and black wire are also used.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 06:24:48 PM
To Clarify-

It may not be a D3 board and instead may require external power. If so then the yellow and black wire are connected to an external transformer.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 06:38:34 PM
Another distributor to check with is Midwest Telephone Supply.

http://www.payphoneproducts.com/index.shtml


Midwest Telephone Supply provides knowledgeable technical support and a complete parts inventory for Protel, Elcotel, Ernest Telecom, Intellicall, TSG, Western Electric, and other major brands of payphone equipment.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 18, 2013, 07:00:49 PM
Also, try connecting one of your other payphones.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: poplar1 on July 18, 2013, 07:30:50 PM
Quote from: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 11:12:40 AM
thank you everyone for response
i connected the green and red from landline to payphone

Payphone rings but i cant make calls or receive them

I called landline(payphone) from my cell --it rings
but when i pickup handset it keeps ringing
and I cant call out

any ideas??
and what are the other 2 wires for --yellow and black??



I see only red, green and yellow. Is there a black wire inside the phone or only on the wall jack?
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 20, 2013, 11:44:23 AM
checked the other phone that has keys and no board
looked through the holes of the other 2 and no board

the wall jack i was using only has 2 wires connected yellow and green
did try with one upstairs but same result

I decided to have the phone company come in on Tuesday--will update then

I have a feeling this phone is a DUD--LOL

Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 23, 2013, 02:58:21 PM
phone company was here--He didn't even want to touch it--lol
i read that the battery could be dead --so leaving it connected for a couple days
lets see what happens.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 23, 2013, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: gonzo1968 on July 23, 2013, 02:58:21 PM
phone company was here--He didn't even want to touch it--lol
i read that the battery could be dead --so leaving it connected for a couple days
lets see what happens.

Yes I mentioned early-on that the on-board battery may be a problem.

QuoteAlso, the on-board memory battery may have to be charged by leaving the payphone connected to the telephone line or it may have to be replaced.
[/i]

Because of the 1883 Federal Consent Decree, it would have been a violation if the telephone company repairman attempted to repair your instrument.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 24, 2013, 10:40:26 PM
was just thinking----is it possible to remove
sorry for saying this
remove whats here and attached the interior with a regular cheap phone

only as a last resort--still charging battery
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 24, 2013, 11:42:57 PM
Take a look at the combined Touch Tone dial and switchook and I think you will see that it is very unlikely you will be able to substitute components out of a standard 500-series telephone.

There are a myriad of reasons why it won't work but if someone else has a quick hack then perhaps they will chime-in.

However I believe one of the suppliers that I had mentioned earlier has their own conversion kit so it may be worth your while to contact them to see what they are charging.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: poplar1 on July 25, 2013, 01:41:05 AM
AE_Collector: What happened to all the AE dumb boards you used to work on? Didn't you say that this phone has an AE housing? There must be some AE parts lying around B.C.

Perhaps the Payphone refurbishers would have surplus parts like dumb boards, dials and hook switches that would work for these phones. They probably have little use for them since, as far as I know, all public pay phones are now using smart boards.

However,  there is still one conversion that uses the old parts--the "inmate phone." This is a single slot pay phone with the coin mechanism and smart board removed, and the coin return and coin slot covered up. These would probably still have the older parts  for talking, dialing and ringing.  Whatever company has the contract for maintaining pay phones and/or inmate phones at a local hospital or prison would probably also have a lot of surplus parts.

Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 25, 2013, 02:46:27 AM
Even though they call them A.E. housings, they are NOT and A.E. parts are not interchangeable.
The only similarity between A.E. 120-series payphones is that the coin return is located on the same side of the lower housing.

Compare it with a photo of an actual A.E. payphone and you will see there are vast differences between the two including the location of the instruction card and the odd-shaped A.E. buttons on the tone-dial and the shape and location of the coin release lever.

From what little I can see from the photos supplied, it is a cheap Taiwanese import made by Tatung and stuffed with an Ernest smart-board.

They were popular with low-budget private payphone operators and offered little security when compared to real WECo or AECo housings.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: AE_Collector on July 26, 2013, 09:34:12 PM
I am not convinced. The coin acceptor, relay and hopper on this one look AE compatible. The upper housing reminds me of Protel. An AE chassis could be put into the Protel phones that we worked on. Problem will be attaching the upper to the chassis as cables and connectors are different.

Terry
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 27, 2013, 02:19:33 AM
The photos are not detailed enough to be conclusive however I have never seen a Protel with a black wrinkle finish on a light-gauge sheet metal chassis along with a cheap imported ringer which is more typical of Tatung.

Also I doubt that Bell-Com would source equipment from two rival vendors; particularly combining a higher quality housing from Protel with low-end electronics from Ernest. 

As I previously stated, there are potentially a myriad of problems trying to modify these sets, especially when trying to figure out the pin-outs on the connectors and some dial-pads do not actually generate the DTMF tones, instead they are created digitally within the circuit boards.

If I can drag-out a couple of my Protels I will take a few photos to compare them.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: DavePEI on July 27, 2013, 05:30:04 AM
Quote from: gonzo1968 on July 18, 2013, 06:08:47 PM
i think its a d3 board
Are you certain it is a 7D3 board? The earlier D1 board required external power to operate and wouldn't operate without.... Only the 7D3 was line powered. I have a working 7D1 here. Without checking mine, I can't remember what the PS voltage was or how it connected. However, it will do nothing without its power supply. I have a copy of Ernest Telelink here, but it is no good to you unless you get the phone powered up first.

1995 sounds very early for a 7D3 board. I don''t think the 7D3 was introduced until 1998. Now, I can check, but for now forget how the power connects to the 7D1, but I believe it came in direct from the supply to a connector on board - look for an extraneous two pin connector on the board.

Wait until you hear that good old Georgia girl asking you to deposit money!

Dave
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 27, 2013, 10:02:07 AM
I believe that Dave has a good point in that it may not be a D3 board and as I pointed out on July 18th:

To Clarify-
It may not be a D3 board and instead may require external power. If so then the yellow and black wire are connected to an external transformer.


So while the yellow and black wires are typically used for carrying the power to the payphone when the transformer is located remotely, this board may have another type of connector on it.
As far as when the D3 boards were introduced, Bell-Com's 1995 press release touts the use of D3 boards.

Most likely better photos of the board are in order so that Dave can compare them with the boards in his instruments.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: AE_Collector on July 27, 2013, 11:19:23 AM
I agree it is NOT a Protel, it just has some features that remind me of one. We had lots of Protel 6520's as well as AE 120B's and there were occasions where we would convert from either one to the other in the field quite easily. But te. Upper housing would be completely swapped out along with various easily swapped internal parts. It was easy for us having all the parts on our trucks but wouldn't be easy otherwise.

Terry
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: gonzo1968 on July 29, 2013, 12:23:49 AM
hi again
well the phone been connected now for 5 days and still no dial tone
I have attached 5 more picture of the board
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: G-Man on July 29, 2013, 01:51:51 AM
When the switch is in the PROGRAM position do you hear tones when you depress the buttons on the keyboard?

Have you checked with any of the payphone parts distributors about acquiring a new lithium battery?

I'm not positive but I may have located a potential source for programming you payphone, but until you are able to resuscitate it back to life it is moot at this point.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: DavePEI on July 29, 2013, 06:12:40 AM
Definately an Ernest D3 so should be line powered. Try reversing the ring and tip in at the terminal strip at the bottom. Likely won't make a difference, but worth a try.

Make sure your line cord is continuous from line to spade terminals. If there is a break anywhere in that line, the phone will not receive power. They often go at either end, either at the modular plug, or at the spade end. Also, I notice the red wire has a Scotchlok connector on it - make sure it is continuous.

The keyboard and hook switch (everything going to the front section) needs to be plugged in to get the phone to do anything, otherwise it will be dead.

Years ago, I saved the following troubleshooting document from the Ernest site:

Also below that a manual for programming the EXT, a model which came out just after the 7D3 and which shares most commands and features.

One other thought I had - if you happen to have this connected to a VOIP port, I doubt sincerely that this will give you sufficient power to power up the phone - in needs to be plugged into a standard POTS line.

Main thing is to check the continuity of the cord first.

Dave
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: tanderson78 on August 09, 2017, 01:50:26 PM
I am putting a portion of my phone collection, mostly Western Electric, in display cases at a local library for the second year in a row.  Imagine that some kids these days have never seen a land line, pay phone, or a rotary phone?  I need help with some of the model numbers on payphones and butt sets. For example: 

1.  Western Electric 233G (dated 1965) Manufactured from 195X - 196X.
2.  Western Electric Single Slot Rotary (dated 1970) Mfd from 196X - 19xx.
3.  Western Electric Single Slot TT (dated 1990) Mfd from 197X - 199X.

I would have included photos, but I got an upload error.
Title: Re: need help to identify payphone
Post by: Payphone installer on August 13, 2017, 01:30:21 PM
You will never get the board working wouthout the software,Bell-Comm was a scam company that sold scam payphone routes to unknowing customers,its a long story. All you need to make the phone work is a protel board for a cocot or and maybe a dial, the other parts will work. You need a protel 2000 board or a 7000 board that is tested and working. You can download it on the number listed in my earlier post. the phone will collect return and act as it should.