Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Identification, Repair & Restoration => Telephone Restoration Projects and Techniques => Sanding Plastic - Paper and Chemical Tips & Techniques => Topic started by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:11:45 PM

Title: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:11:45 PM
While I think that using abrasives alone on Tenite to get it back to a nice glossy finish is nice, I have found that chemical polishing is cheaper, more effective, less time-consuming, and leads to a much nicer, richer level of gloss with less room for error than using high-grit sandpaper. It also gives a much more even and glossier finish than polishing alone.

This method is effective for old, dull finishes, or after major projects involving sandpaper (once you finish with 800 grit or higher). If you are polishing a phone before using Peroxide or Bleach to remove nicotine staining or discoloration, it's best to use this method prior, since it's removing the most heavily stained layer of plastic which won't have to be bleached.

NOTE: This will NOT work on ABS or Bakelite, and either may not work on or will damage other types of plastic. I have only successfully experimented on Tenite made by Western Electric and Automatic Electric. You also should not use this method for dial bezels on WE500s or AE80s.

Before trying this on a valuable phone, you might want to experiment on a scrap piece of soft plastic first...this method takes some practice and getting-used-to.


You'll need:

-Denatured Alcohol, preferably a gallon jug

-Paper towel

-Liquid polish (I use Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, but Novus #2 should work

-CLEAN microfiber towel
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Short Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:21:07 PM
You can see how the plastic looks beforehand. It looks decent, but pretty dull, scratched, and oxidized.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Short Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:36:57 PM
Saturate a piece of paper towel in Denatured Alcohol, but only enough to cover the area of your fingertips. Any more than that, and you'll start rubbing parts of the plastic with Denatured Alcohol-soaked paper towel that you don't want to! I polish with my index and middle finger, but that's just me. Don't chemical polish any area that has lettering or sharp edges, as these may be removed or dulled with this method. Leave these areas for liquid polish.

Find a specific area of the plastic that you want to polish (without any sharp edges that you want to save, like lettering or mousehole edges), and start polishing in circular motions. If you stop with the paper towel on the plastic for more than a second or two, the paper towel will bond to the plastic, causing fuzzy pieces to get stuck in the plastic. If you have to stop, immediately lift the paper towel off the surface.

Keep polishing the same area repeatedly until the Denatured Alcohol feels like it's almost completely evaporated from the towel. If you stop polishing while it's wet, you end up with deep swirl marks. Letting it dry out while in motion will result in a very smooth surface.

If the finish doesn't look quite right, or you rub through the towel while polishing, simply wet another piece of paper towel and start again. The smoother the surface is, the less the Alcohol will remove.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Short Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
Wait a minute or so after using Denatured Alcohol, as the plastic is still soft. When all of the alcohol has evaporated from the surface, hit it with liquid polish on the microfiber towel, using the same motion you used for the Alcohol. You can see the difference between Alcohol alone and Alcohol followed by polish.

You may end up with white hazing around the edges of the plastic you polished that were hit with the paper towel. That can either be removed with polish, or some light touchup Denatured Alcohol work, followed by polish.

Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Short Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:50:00 PM
There you have it! It wasn't very short, but I tried to explain everything the best I could. :-[

Results may vary slightly depending on plastic color, age, manufacturer, condition, etc. Oxidized plastic is usually much faster to polish than 800 grit, but the rules apply just the same.

I hope someone finds this useful! :)
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: dlvh on September 10, 2017, 07:41:36 PM
^ A very nice tutorial, and if I get another Tenite phone in similar shape, I will try this method. Mine was in quite a bit worse shape, and a similar process didn't touch it, but this is a very good alternative.

Do I see on the phones right side, that you have a bit of a Flaking issue also, or is it just a "pimple" in the Tenite?

Nice Work Again!

David
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 09:50:11 PM
Quote from: dlvh on September 10, 2017, 07:41:36 PM
^ A very nice tutorial, and if I get another Tenite phone in similar shape, I will try this method. Mine was in quite a bit worse shape, and a similar process didn't touch it, but this is a very good alternative.

Do I see on the phones right side, that you have a bit of a Flaking issue also, or is it just a "pimple" in the Tenite?

Nice Work Again!

David

Thanks!

That was actually a spot of dirt that didn't come off when I polished that side. What you see is a bump that was caused by the dirt shielding the plastic underneath from melting. The surrounding plastic melted, but that didn't. I'll have to touch it up with some sandpaper, then redo it with Alcohol.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: RotarDad on September 11, 2017, 03:39:30 AM
Christian - This is really great!  I've lost count of the soft plastic 500s I've polished, and sanded in places, to get results that aren't as good as your very-efficient approach.  Thank you for developing this technique and sharing your methods.  Question - You state that this does not work on Bakelite, yet I see an awesome G-1 in your pics.....
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 11, 2017, 10:04:09 AM
Thanks Paul!!

My iPad camera isn't very good with accurately portraying color--that's the Tenite Mahogany Brown G3 that goes with the housing. It was getting dark outside when I took that picture (all of the lighting is from the windows directly behind me), so it looks black in that picture.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: oldguy on September 11, 2017, 04:22:34 PM
Regardless of the color, the results are amazing. Thank you for sharing Christian.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 15, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
I bought this very dirty, '58 all numbers matching WE 500 some time ago in one of my regular haunts (It's a rescue). I tucked it back on a shelf.  Today I had some time and thought it would be the perfect candidate to try out Christian's chemical sanding technique on. The results are amazing!

I also had to improvise with what I have to do the buffing. I have a hand held Roybi buffer that works great but, it don't reach into the curvy recesses well at all. I had a small buffing wheel I used on my drill and attached the drill to a old B&D table top Workmate. I used a small bungee to hold the drill trigger in the on position. I was in business! I used Meguires compound just like Christian did and finished it off with Novus 2 & 1.

If you hate sanding & have a Tenite case you would like to restore you have to try this technique!

Now I need a similar effective technique for Bakelite!

Thanks Christian, for the tip!

Benny
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 15, 2017, 10:58:14 AM
couple more pics...is that one of the infamous "fat" cords?
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 15, 2017, 08:54:48 PM
Thanks for posting that, Benny!

Wow, that looks great! I like your creation for a housing polisher!

I'm glad the technique worked for you! ;)

BTW, yes that looks like a genuine fat cord to me! What is the date on the strain relief?
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 15, 2017, 09:13:01 PM
Interesting thing about the cord, take a look. It has two strain reliefs on the phone end. No dates on either end. Could this be a after market product?

I am eyeballing two more housings for the chemical treatment as well..

Benny
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 16, 2017, 12:23:19 AM
Interesting.

It looks like cord was designed for use with both a 500 and a 302 or older. This would have made swapping the cord to one type of phone to the other much easier. They had strain reliefs that served double-duty for use on 5302s, but it looks like a refurb center did this one.

Post pictures if you decide to get those housings polished!
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 16, 2017, 08:06:35 AM
I think I will do my prized 9/52 birthday 500 phone today. I'll post!
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: cloyd on September 16, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 04:11:45 PM
NOTE: This will NOT work on ABS or Bakelite, and either may not work on or will damage other types of plastic. I have only successfully experimented on Tenite made by Western Electric and Automatic Electric. You also should not use this method for dial bezels on WE500s or AE80s.
Is there a definitive test to determine which type of plastic a phone is made out of?

I am anxious to try this method!  Are AE183 space-makers made of tenite?

Tina
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: cloyd on September 16, 2017, 11:47:17 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on September 10, 2017, 09:50:11 PM
Thanks!

That was actually a spot of dirt that didn't come off when I polished that side. What you see is a bump that was caused by the dirt shielding the plastic underneath from melting. The surrounding plastic melted, but that didn't. I'll have to touch it up with some sandpaper, then redo it with Alcohol.

It would pay to clean the phone first then?  Let me see if I have the correct sequence of events.
1. Clean  2. chemical sanding  3. peroxide or bleach  4. polishing.
Let me know if this isn't correct.

Tina
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 16, 2017, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: cloyd on September 16, 2017, 11:47:17 AM
It would pay to clean the phone first then?  Let me see if I have the correct sequence of events.
1. Clean  2. chemical sanding  3. peroxide or bleach  4. polishing.
Let me know if this isn't correct.

Tina
Quote from: cloyd on September 16, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
Is there a definitive test to determine which type of plastic a phone is made out of?

I am anxious to try this method!  Are AE183 space-makers made of tenite?

Tina

I don't mean to speak for Christian, he will speak for himself. I'm not sure about your 183. Put some Denatured alcohol on a cloth and rub it on a spot on the inside of the case. If it is tenite some color may come off on the cloth. The space you rubbed will feel tacky before it dries. If it is ABS it will only feel wet, as if you used water.

I just finished my second case in two days. I cleaned the case with soap & water. I rub it down with DA. Use a lint free cloth, a quality paper towel works best.  If there are deep scratches keep the towel wet as you rub the scratches out. If the scratch still shows, even while polishing you can return to the DA on that spot only and resume polishing. I use compound, Novus2, Novus1 and I don't use any bleach or anything else.

This is a miracle treatment for Tenite (soft plastic) Good luck!

Benny

Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 16, 2017, 12:24:53 PM
I just finished my 9/52 500. It has a '56 case, unfortunately. I had already polished it considerably and it didn't look too bad. This method yields results that are in whole other class. This 60 year old case may not have looked this good when it was new!
It took me less than a hour.

My 9/52 WE wall phone is next! Oh...Christian, the earlier mentioned "fat" cord is going on this Birthday phone, original or not...it's on a dowel baking in the sun right now. It will look really good on this "new" case!

Benny
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: cloyd on September 16, 2017, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Pourme on September 16, 2017, 12:11:38 PM
I don't mean to speak for Christian, he will speak for himself. I'm not sure about your 183. Put some Denatured alcohol on a cloth and rub it on a spot on the inside of the case. If it is tenite some color may come off on the cloth. The space you rubbed will feel tacky before it dries. If it is ABS it will only feel wet, as if you used water.

I just finished my second case in two days. I cleaned the case with soap & water. I rub it down with DA. Use a lint free cloth, a quality paper towel works best.  If there are deep scratches keep the towel wet as you rub the scratches out. If the scratch still shows, even while polishing you can return to the DA on that spot only and resume polishing. I use compound, Novus2, Novus1 and I don't use any bleach or anything else.

This is a miracle treatment for Tenite (soft plastic) Good luck!

Benny
Benny,
So if you have a white WE500 that is discolored like I do, you would only need to do this chemical sanding then polishing and it reveals the original color?
Tina
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 16, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
I have never treated any color other than black. Is it PVC or Tenite?

Christian may have used it on color sets.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on September 16, 2017, 01:23:54 PM
Wow, great results, Benny! I'm glad you're excited about this! Keep posting results!

Tina;

You are correct about the steps, but I would do any bleaching after chemical polishing. The Alcohol removes that thin oxidized layer of plastic along with any other plastic that is rough or uneven, and the most heavily faded or discolored plastic that you would need to bleach is removed in this step. You're still left with a little bit of lightly faded plastic underneath that oxidation, but the peroxide or bleach no longer needs to soak through the rough initial layer to get to the deeper fading.

Chemical Polishing isn't like sanding--it only removes as much plastic as it needs to get the finish perfectly glossy, but only on a relatively smooth surface to begin with. Sanding would inevitability get you to the original color, but UV fading usually goes so deep that it would be a better idea to peroxide or bleach. In short, Chemical Sanding before color restoring will quicken the bleaching or peroxide process.

I'm not sure about your 183. I believe they were made of both ABS and Tenite, and switched to ABS around 1961 or 1962. An Alcohol test can't hurt--I used this method on a Tenite Ivory AE80, it worked just as well as it does for WE Tenite.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 16, 2017, 04:08:13 PM
The 1st pic is phone #3 treated with DE.

Then, after my Birthday phone the 9/52 500 was done and had it's newly assigned handset cord attached...It looked so good I just had to post it's finished "Glamour Shot"!

Thanks again for the process, Christian!
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 17, 2017, 03:22:32 PM
I did another one....  This time my Kellogg Banjo I bought from Kenton K earlier this year.....beautiful!
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: cloyd on September 18, 2017, 02:21:22 PM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on September 16, 2017, 01:23:54 PM
Wow, great results, Benny! I'm glad you're excited about this! Keep posting results!

Tina;

I'm not sure about your 183. I believe they were made of both ABS and Tenite, and switched to ABS around 1961 or 1962. An Alcohol test can't hurt--I used this method on a Tenite Ivory AE80, it worked just as well as it does for WE Tenite.

I tested it and it is ABS. The date on the back is 4-63-2 which corresponds correctly with the date you give for the switch.  Do you know why the switch between the plastics was made?

Tina
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: TelePlay on September 18, 2017, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: cloyd on September 18, 2017, 02:21:22 PM
I tested it and it is ABS. The date on the back is 4-63-2 which corresponds correctly with the date you give for the switch.  Do you know why the switch between the plastics was made?

I would think ABS being a harder, tougher plastic would be more durable than the tenite, softer plastic. ABS being the latest and greatest product in the world of plastic manufacturer's R&D labs which replaced tenite everywhere it was used.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: jsowers on September 18, 2017, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: cloyd on September 18, 2017, 02:21:22 PM
I tested it and it is ABS. The date on the back is 4-63-2 which corresponds correctly with the date you give for the switch.  Do you know why the switch between the plastics was made?

Tina
That was also about the time the AE Starlite came out (1961, I think) and as with WE and the Princess at the Indianapolis plant, it may have ushered in a new type of plastic over at AE. Bedroom phones were more apt to be dropped or knocked off the nightstand and I guess they thought ABS was tougher, though I'm not so sure it stood the test of time. It still cracked. It was very prone to UV damage too. You can see it in the 500 sets from late 1959, where the ABS parts are yellowed and the Tenite isn't. Aqua blue, white, pink and light gray ABS especially changed under UV exposure.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: Pourme on September 18, 2017, 03:31:49 PM
No one thought that sixty years later we would be concerned with which one is easier to polish!

Ha!
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: RotarDad on October 22, 2017, 10:18:39 PM
Christian - I wonder if you would be give me your thoughts on this phone.  It is a very nice Mediterranean Blue with "cord warts" on front and back of the shell from a 15' cord being wrapped around it for probably decades.. :(   My wife and daughter found it for me in an antique store... :)  What are your specific thoughts?   Sand down the warts to level first, then the chemical polishing?  I don't like going more coarse than 1500 on the paper, but these are big warts especially in the back.....   Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: WEBellSystemChristian on October 23, 2017, 03:57:57 PM
Paul;

First of all, how cool is it that your family goes phone hunting for you?!? Then, they find a Med Blue locally and buy it for you! ;D :o

If you're trying to completely level out the warts, you may want to start with dabbing Acetone on the warts before sanding. If you keep the surface level while the Acetone evaporates, it should melt the high spots, causing them to pool back into the low spots. Keep the surface you're about to fill in level with the ceiling, so that the liquid plastic flows into the low spot like a puddle. Wet your fingertip with Acetone (keep it fairly wet--too little and you end up with fingerprints in the plastic) and lightly dab the affected area repeatedly until the deep areas appear to be filled in. Try this out on some scrap Tenite before trying it on your Med Blue.

Denatured Alcohol is only a high gloss polishing agent for Tenite, intermediate between sanding and polishing. Acetone is more suited for liquifing plastic with damage repair, far more effective than sandpaper alone.

After the Acetone completely evaporates, I would say sand down what's left of the warts with 800, then 2000, then liquid polish. Starting with 1500 grit would be pretty miserable, especially knowing that it's more susceptible to clogging and not penetrating initially due to the waxy coating Tenite develops over time. A slightly coarser grit like 800 would be best for starting. If you're concerned with leaving a couple scratches behind after polishing, the Denatured Alcohol should take care of that.
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: RotarDad on October 23, 2017, 10:29:31 PM
Thanks, Christian!  I will find some time to work on this, and I will report back.  Yes, I was very pleased to see that my family takes some interest in what interests me, and they knew what that phone was....  I was "Doug Rose Proud" of that find.... ;)
Title: Re: Tenite Chemical Polishing--My Guide
Post by: andy1702 on April 02, 2018, 11:50:19 AM
I use this technique on ABS cases. The difference is I don't use alcohol but an acetone / methylated spirit mix. The way i mix it is hold a cloth over a meths bottle and tip upside down quickly to wet the cloth. Then do the same with the acetone bottle. you now have a cloth wetted with meths that also has some acetone on it. This mix will polish ABS. However if you ahve deep scratches then use more acetone and less meths. This may give a rough surface, but use the mix after and it will level it out. There is sometimes a white bloom leftover, but the bloom can easily be removed by a quick rub with an abrasive polish. I use Brasso.

So this very similar technique can be used on the later ABS.

The question that remains is does anyone know the chemical to use to do this with Diakon?