WE 500 L/M ringer sounding a little 'weak'

[Holtzer-Cabot]

I have a 1961 500, and the ringer rings fine, but it doesn't sound as loud as another 500 I have hooked up. Is there a way to adjust it? I have the loudness control on the bottom all the way up. Also, how to you adjust the bias spring? it is the little rod in the front of the ringer below the bells? I would like the ringer to do a 'bell tap'  and have the clapper hit the gongs when a phone is taken off-hook. I also want to know to how to reverse this in case it bothers someone. Thanks!

[Victor Laszlo]

Some combinations of gongs, clapper, condenser and bias spring will give you different volumes from one phone to a similar one.  The bias spring is seen from the back of the ringer, between the gongs. It rests in a metal clip that has two positions for it.  It can be moved from the high bias to the low bias using your finger nail. No tools required.  It will be difficult to recreate bell tap, since only a very specific set of electrical conditions will cause it. The phones are designed specifically NOT to produce bell tap, because it is an unwanted condition (except, I guess, in your case.) Try raising the line voltage above 54 volts and putting a few extra REN across the line. That might make it tap.

[Holtzer-Cabot]

Some combinations of gongs, clapper, condenser and bias spring will give you different volumes from one phone to a similar one.  The bias spring is seen from the back of the ringer, between the gongs. It rests in a metal clip that has two positions for it.  It can be moved from the high bias to the low bias using your finger nail. No tools required.  It will be difficult to recreate bell tap, since only a very specific set of electrical conditions will cause it. The phones are designed specifically NOT to produce bell tap, because it is an unwanted condition (except, I guess, in your case.) Try raising the line voltage above 54 volts and putting a few extra REN across the line. That might make it tap.

Okay, I see the bias spring, what position should it be in for the ringer to preform at it's best? And it is okay about the bell tap, I don't need it really.

[jsowers]

Okay, I see the bias spring, what position should it be in for the ringer to preform at it's best? And it is okay about the bell tap, I don't need it really.

This diagram that Dennis posted shows how to set it for a weaker bias. You may want to set yours for a stronger bias, which is all the way inside the catch, like in the first diagram. You can play around with it and see what works for you. It won't hurt anything to change the bias.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2905.msg39289#msg39289

Also the gong on the right is adjustable beyond just the thumbwheel. It's "eccentric" as they say in technical circles. Loosen the screw a little and adjust it so you have a very small gap between clapper and gong when it's all the way toward "loud." So the clapper doesn't rest on the gong. Then tighten the screw down. This may make it perform better. You can test it by just moving the clapper away from the bell and letting go. If adjusted properly, it should ding and echo a little. Also any wires touching bells will make them muted. Dress all the mounting cord wires out of the way.

[Holtzer-Cabot]

This diagram that Dennis posted shows how to set it for a weaker bias. You may want to set yours for a stronger bias, which is all the way inside the catch, like in the first diagram. You can play around with it and see what works for you. It won't hurt anything to change the bias.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2905.msg39289#msg39289

Also the gong on the right is adjustable beyond just the thumbwheel. It's "eccentric" as they say in technical circles. Loosen the screw a little and adjust it so you have a very small gap between clapper and gong when it's all the way toward "loud." So the clapper doesn't rest on the gong. Then tighten the screw down. This may make it perform better. You can test it by just moving the clapper away from the bell and letting go. If adjusted properly, it should ding and echo a little. Also any wires touching bells will make them muted. Dress all the mounting cord wires out of the way.

I set it for stronger bias (in the catch), but I can't seem to get the bell to have that much of a small gap when it is all the way on 'loud', only when it is all the way down. I loosened the bell mounting screw. Also, the clapper rests on the other gong, I don't know if that effects it any, I wouldn't think so! And I let it go and it does produce a nice ding. I love the sound of the C4 ringer!  I haven't heard it ring yet, as no one has called so far, and I do have a magnet that I could ring it with, but I think it would be best to see how it sounds on full ringing voltage.

[Jack Ryan]

I would like the ringer to do a 'bell tap'  and have the clapper hit the gongs when a phone is taken off-hook.

Try disconnecting the bias spring. If still no tinkle, try reversing L1 & L2.

I also want to know to how to reverse this in case it bothers someone. Thanks!

Reconnect it ;-)

The bias spring is there to stop bell tinkle (tap). Mostly from other phones connected in parallel.

Jack

[Holtzer-Cabot]

Try disconnecting the bias spring. If still no tinkle, try reversing L1 & L2.

Reconnect it ;-)

The bias spring is there to stop bell tinkle (tap). Mostly from other phones connected in parallel.

Jack

Sorry if I sound dumb, but how do I go about disconnecting the bias spring?

[Jack Ryan]

Sorry if I sound dumb, but how do I go about disconnecting the bias spring?

Not a dumb question at all. I just checked and it is not possible to totally remove the bias on a Type C ringer because the armature is spring mounted.

Sorry about that.

Jack

[Holtzer-Cabot]

Not a dumb question at all. I just checked and it is not possible to totally remove the bias on a Type C ringer because the armature is spring mounted.

Sorry about that.

Jack

Oh, okay! Thanks for letting me know!

[AE_Collector]

Is the mounting hole in the gong off centre on this type of ringer? If so, rotating the gongs gets them closer or further from the clapper changing the volume as well.

Terry

[Holtzer-Cabot]

Is the mounting hole in the gong off centre on this type of ringer? If so, rotating the gongs gets them closer or further from the clapper changing the volume as well.

Terry

Nope, the mounting holes are in the center of the ringer. There is a ringer adjustment in the bottom baseplate of the phone.

[AE_Collector]

I suspect that you are probably correct but if the mounting hole through each gong were off centre it us only very slightly so. Rotating the gong 180 degrees might only vary the edge of the gong to clapper space by 1/8" or so. AE did this even on ringers that had a volume adjustment through the base of the phone.

Terry

[poplar1]

One gong has the hole in the center, and the other does not.

Here is an interesting article on the C4A ringer:
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/11428-54oct-blr-p366-universal-ringer-c4a

[poplar1]

            2.12  (snip) Even numbered  gongs 52A, 54A, etc
                              have concentric mounting holes and
                              are to be mounted on movable mounting
                              post. The odd numbered gongs 53A,
                              55A, etc, have eccentric mounting
                              holes and are installed on fixed
                              mounting post.

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/9066-501-250-303-i4-sep78-ringers-c-type-maintenance

(TCI Library)

So, you are correct that turning the "movable gong" that is attached to the post with volume control wheel makes no difference, because it is concentric (hole in the center). But turning the "fixed gong"  -- which should be the one with the odd number -- should make a difference.

It seems that early WE 500 sets, and maybe most NE 500s, were shipped with the ringers adjusted so that when the volume control wheel was in the low position, only one gong was struck. Anyone else notice this? This was certainly not true on later WE 500s or 2500s.

[Holtzer-Cabot]

I suspect that you are probably correct but if the mounting hole through each gong were off centre it us only very slightly so. Rotating the gong 180 degrees might only vary the edge of the gong to clapper space by 1/8" or so. AE did this even on ringers that had a volume adjustment through the base of the phone.

Terry

Right, but this is a Western Electric phone. It's a model 500 from 1961.