Howdy-
I have a W.E. 5302 and (just acquired) 302 phone and both dials (#5M and 5H, respectively) return a bit on the slow side, and I would like to adjust them. The BSP's show a special tool No. 260 which holds the governor weights in place while adjustment is performed. Does anyone know where I can get one of these? If so, I would greatly appreciate it as I do want to maintain my equipment properly.
Thank you in advance.
I doubt it has anything to do with the governor and would advise not to touch the governor.
Might just need a good cleaning. You could adjust the coil spring around the center post.
The safest way is to send them to Steve Hilsz.
Dennis Hallworth
Quote from: N7LTH on January 10, 2014, 10:36:13 PM
Howdy-
I have a W.E. 5302 and (just acquired) 302 phone and both dials (#5M and 5H, respectively) return a bit on the slow side, and I would like to adjust them. The BSP's show a special tool No. 260 which holds the governor weights in place while adjustment is performed. Does anyone know where I can get one of these? If so, I would greatly appreciate it as I do want to maintain my equipment properly.
Thank you in advance.
While not uncommon they are generally not readily available since only limited amount of them were produced and those of us who have them on our workbenches tend to keep them for our own use. Since there are a lot of retired "Bell Heads" on the TCI list, you may want to inquire there as well.
Still, they do occasionally come up on eBay so patience is the keyword.
Regarding your slow dials, indeed this is not an uncommon problem with old dials. When they return slowly it usually means they are dirty, not misadjusted. Adjustment should only be performed when the dial is mechanically sound and dirt free.
At first I just place a tiny drop of oil on the holes that hold the gear rods, and even onto the gears themselves to ease friction from accumulated dust or dirt. If that doesn't help enough, I stick those dials into an ultrasonic cleaner with a strong detergent for about 10 minutes, after removing easily removable parts, dial face, dust barrier, finger stop, etc. to provide as much direct access as possible for the water to circulate. It doesn't take off the type and date markings, but the dirt comes out quickly and very visibly.
I have also used some electronics cleaner spray from Radio Shack, just blasting the gear area with the spray, which certainly has helped.
Only once perhaps, on a #4 dial, I think, I had to wind up the recoil spring a turn or two to give the dial more energy.
Never needed to adjust the governor, although I do have a #2 dial that is clean but still runs at only 7.8 pulses per second, so that one I may actually adjust some time, but my equipment still recognizes the pulse train without errors.
Is there a picture available of this tool No. 260?
Quote from: teka-bb on January 11, 2014, 02:09:17 AM
Is there a picture available of this tool No. 260?
Here is the page for the tool from AT&T Specification 4566 of February 1926, p.113.
I agree with unbeldi. A good clean almost Always solves the speedproblem.
If the problem persists, I fist adjust the spring a little.
After these two steps, the dials still having speed problems are very very rare indeed. Nowadays I´d first check if, after these steps the dial is still faulty, for other problems inhibiting correct function. (do all contacts operate properly, test dial on another Phone, does the fingerstop not touch the fingerwheel, etc).
I´ve refurbished over 200 dials now and had to correct the governor in only a hand full of cases, some of which I suspect were because of my inexperience.
Besides that, isn´t it possible to make such a tool yourself?
Quote from: unbeldi on January 11, 2014, 02:16:33 AM
Here is the page for the tool from AT&T Specification 4566 of February 1926, p.113.
Thanks. It's hard to see how the tool looks from the drawing. Hopefully someone has a picture of the real tool?
Quote from: teka-bb on January 11, 2014, 02:43:51 AM
Quote from: unbeldi on January 11, 2014, 02:16:33 AM
Here is the page for the tool from AT&T Specification 4566 of February 1926, p.113.
Thanks. It's hard to see how the tool looks from the drawing. Hopefully someone has a picture of the real tool?
Well, it's just a little metal plate that clamps onto the governor housing and has tabs bent to the inside to arrest the governor rotor.
I do think this can be made fairly easily. Perhaps even from thick copper wire, I have some from house wiring that is rather hard to bend over the distance of half inch or so.
Here are a few photos of one of my tools. Hopefully they will be clear enough for you to see how it is used.
Quote from: G-Man on January 11, 2014, 05:33:07 AM
Here are a few photos of one of my tools. Hopefully they will be clear enough for you to see how it is used.
What a neat little tool! Sadly, however despite the size of my tool collection, I have never come across one. Thank you G-Man for posting a photo of yours! Now I will know what to look for....
Dave
I second that Dave....it is a very cool tool. Nice find G-man...Doug
Thanks a million for all of the responses so far! Great to see photos of an actual #260 and know it really DOES exist :)
I think I'll clean 'em up first and see if that rectifies the issue, and I'll keep an eye on eBay for one as well just in case. I bet these could be fairly easily made if one has the dimensions.
Thanks again.
It is a great tool except that I use 2 twizzlers because I do not have this tool... A machinist could make some. I suppose.
Wow, thanks for the clear pics. It is basically a plate with bent tabs. Such a tool can easily be made.
Perhaps someone can post a pattern with exact dimensions?
Or put the tool under a scanner with a ruler, preferably with both inches and centimeters.
The tool prevents the governor from spinning as you adjust the screw. I had to adjust one of mine recently and used a small open-ended wrench, which I stuck in the back of the governor while I fiddled eith the adjustment screw.
Here are some of the dimensions, from WeCo catalog 11 (1950).
Chuck
Thanks Chuck, that´s exactly what I would need to make one. Sadly the dials the tool is for are not very common here. ;)
It has me thinking of making such a thing for other dials. Perhaps one that is a little adjustable, so it fits lots of dials.
It is nice to see the photo of the tool. I too have wanted one for a long time but have never seen one on eBay. I have adjusted several dials that have the screw adjustment on the governor (after a good cleaning) and it's always worked for me. I have used Q-tips, snipping off the cotton ends with a pair of wire cutters and then just using the cardboard "sticks" to put on either side of the wheel to hold it in place as I make the adjustment.
Maybe we could propose a repro tool be produced, kinda like TCI did with the AE handset tool??
Here's a link to the BSP showing this tool in use. Page 12 of the document---courtesy of the TCI Document Repository.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/wiring-diagrams/western-electric/doc_details/2385-dials-501-162-100-tl
Instructions for the dial (5H) adjustment are on pages 11 & 12.
Quote from: HarrySmith on January 11, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
Maybe we could propose a repro tool be produced, kinda like TCI did with the AE handset tool??
Oooooh... I
LIKE that idea!!!
Here is a #260 Dial Governor Holder that sold for $64:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-260-DIAL-ADJUSTING-TOOL-L-K-/301214288253
This tool doesn't fit on a 7 dial...it is for 2,4 and 5 dials as mentionned. I can be wrong.
This tool sold for $64 plus minor shipping.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10940.msg128722#msg128722
Has anyone figured out how to make one or found a repro source?
John .... I made a tool to do that job if your interested. I can upload a picture, and if you like it, I'll machine one and send it to you.
Jeff Lamb
Quote from: Ktownphoneco on February 14, 2017, 05:06:54 PM
John .... I made a tool to do that job if your interested. I can upload a picture, and if you like it, I'll machine one and send it to you.
Jeff Lamb
Jeff: I would be interested in one, too...
Probably a lot of us would be intersted?
John, "et al" .... Bear in mind I wasn't trying to create the "Mona Lisa" of telephone tools when I made this. Some of it's machined, and some steps were done with hand tools. It consists of a small piece of 5/16" inch square stock, and a piece of 1/4" inch round stock. I'm explaining this as if I were holding a 2, 4 or 5H dial, so that the back of the dial is facing me, and the governor drum is at the top, and I know a lot of this information is a forgone conclusion.
The tool is designed to utilize the lower opening in the governor drum, leaving the upper opening to make the adjustments to the speed control saddle. Loosen the clamping screw and moving the top of the speed adjusting saddle to the left, or counterclockwise, causes the dial speed to increase. Moving it to the right, or clockwise, causes the dial to slow down.
The point of the 1/4" inch round stock handle is obvious. One needs something to hold onto, and that's it. I'll focus on the 5/16" inch square stock, as it's the business end of the tool.
It's made so that it has a "small" bit of wiggle room. The primary notch is a "hair" larger than the governor weight bridge, which joins the 2 weights together, and serves as a mounting pint for the governor speed adjustment saddle. There is a notch running across the working face of the tool which allows the two side notches to drop down on each side of the bridge, but without interfering with, of engaging the bottom portion of the speed adjustment saddle. There is also a groove cut at right angles to that part of the tool which grips the speed adjusting saddle. That small groove allows the tool to avoid resting on the small rivet head that holds on of the governor weights to the bridge.
Once the tool grips the governor weight bridge, the snug fit of the tool in the bottom opening of the governor drum, prevents the governor from turning, one way or the other, any appreciable distance. The screw holding the speed control bridge can then be loosened, the adjustment made, and the screw re-tightened.
Since the tool is brass on brass, or brass on nickel, when it's in contact with the governor parts, there's no scratches to deal with if it were made of steel.
Have a look at the pictures, and if you have any questions, or I missed something, just ask. Just click on the pictures to enlarge.
Jeff